Hello,

I have abit of a dilema and I just wondered what your opinions would be. I have a dobermann bitch who I intend to breed a litter from on her next season ( early next year ) She has been hipscored and vwd tested. However I am finding it really difficult to find a stud that is hipscored. Most dobe breeders that I have spoke to do not hipscore as they say that it is not a problem in the breed. I have now found a dog that I would love to use but no hipscore! Although both his parents are. On on hand it seems stupid to have my girl tested then use an untested dog but on the other hand I'm just not going to find the perfect dog that I am allowed to use (stud dog owners can be very strange! )

What do you think?

Debbie

As the stud fees are quite considerable in the breed I would ask the stud owner to Hip Score the dog. If you really want to use a particular dog offer to pay half the scoring fee (though I think this is wrong). If no-one used unscored dogs then they wouldn't have any bitches to their dogs.

The breed mean is 10 wih is very good, but there is no room for complacency as thre have been dogs scoring right up to 70. In my breed the range is 0 to 61 (mean score varies year to year between 12 and 14) and all breed club members have to have their breeding stock hip scored and eye tested before breeding.

It isn't on for people to rely on other people scoring to say the brteed hasn't a problem. There is a current top stud who scores just over 20, which in itself isn't a really bad score, but if he were to be used on unscored stock and then those unscored bred from, who is to say in a few years time the good position re hips won't have deterorated.

I dont have dobermans but I think you are very responsible having your girl hip scored . I would hold out for a stud that has also been scored . There will be one out there .
After all -should yo use an unscored stud and any of the pups were to have problems you would never forgive yourself .
Good luck ;)
Lel

Hi,

I don't have dobermans either, but I wondered you say that the dog you want to use his parents are hip scored, is his sire no good or too old, and does the breeder of the dog you want to use know of any of the litter he's from who has been hip scored???

Just a thought ie go back to his breeder :)

Karen

Debbie, have a word with Kerioak. Christine is the health co-ordinator for the Dobe Club :-) I am sure she can help you find a suitable scored/tested sire for your litter.

just what i was about to post admin :D

Hello and thankyou for your replies,

The sire of the dog that I would like to use is a very well known champion dog and he is hipscored etc. I can find a bitch from his litter that is h/scored fine. The dam is also a champion and h/scored as is her mum. The bloodlines are very well known and certainly no hip problems etc.
Unfortunately this kennel is a very, very long way from me and as my girl is unproven I have decided against travelling there ( although I would consider it after she is proven) ~I will send Christine (Kerioaks) an e-mail she is always so very helpful.

Debbie

in those circumstances, having a family tree of good hips, if the dog in question was really the one for me, id take the chance, -

I have just been working on the registrations results etc from the latest BRS and out of 226 different sires/dams there are ONLY 7 that have been hip and eye and vWD tested (or clear by parentage) that I am aware of (I don't have all vWD results so there may be a couple more).

Christine

Just out of interest Chrtistine, do Dobe breed club members also test for vWD as a matter of course and how much of a problem in the breed is it these days?

Hi Christine,

Do you think it's mainly hipscoring that breeders aren't bothering with?

Debbie

I don't think many Dobe breeders whether they are members of clubs (there are 10) or not mostly feel they *have* to test for anything.

vWD has been around for a long time but the definitive test has not - now it is available we could - if everyone bred sensibly - eridicate the disease within a few generations without diminishing the gene pool and the clubs have, in general, acknowledged this by allowing the new DBC/KC testing scheme to go ahead.

Hips on the other hand can have multiple causes for problems including ancestors, enviroment (feeding & exercise) and accidents. I feel we should try to breed to Dobes with the breed average or lower as much as possible or we could see the average rising over time.

Dobes can and do have bad hips - Sandie posted the other day about her parents bitch and there have been some high scores, the highest I can recall was in the 70's. Over the last quarter there were nine Dobes tested with scores ranging from 3 to 21, the breed average is 10. Out of 226 separate parents of puppies registered in the last quarter only 18 were hip scored - HOW can we know if the breed has a problem with only this many tested.

I hope Debbie manages to find a fully tested, compatible stud dog for her bitch - it is not easy!

Christine