HELP!!
We have just become owners of a 10 week old Weimaraner bitch,who is adorable. The breeder who was recommended and has bred for over twenty years has weaned her on part dried complete ,food part raw chicken wings and chicken mince,which she loves.
We took her to the vets today for her first innoculation and when the vet asked what we were feeding her,she was horrified and advised none of their vets would recommend feeding raw and boned meats to dogs,due to the risks of bones lodging and bacteria poisoning.She asked whether we would feed our children raw meat!!??
We are so confused,do we keep to the original breeders recommendations and try to find a vet who does advocate the Barf Diet,or do we change her to purely complete dried foods??
ADvice needed desparetly,please!

Find a new vet as quickly as possible, feed your children raw meat where on earth does that equate with feeding dogs.
Keep on feeding as you are unless it does not suit your dog.

I agree completely. continue feeding as the breeder suggest and you search the web for B.A.R.F. sites - sorry I havent got any links, but there are loads of good sites and forums on the subject. I think feeding this way needs a bit of research to make sure you are providing all the dogs' nutrtitional needs. Ian Billingshgurst has written several interesting books on BARF. Out of interest, did the vet suggest what you should be feeding?

Just a thought,

What on earth do Vets think that dogs ate before dog food was invented?? :rolleyes:

They obviously didn't starve and most of them were healthy enough or they would have died out.

Thanks for the tips, we have decided to contiune as we are,feedign the raw chicken wings at one feed and dried food at the other for now.
The vet advised to feed the dried complete foods only as they are sufficient,but having looked into The barf diet in a little more detail and the responses to my questions,plus comments on the Barf Diet results in general we feel the advantages of feeding raw meat ont he bone outway the possible risks.
Another problem we are experiencing though is sleepness nights!!! We did expect ehr to cry a little ,but having had her for five nights there is no improvement,she cries throughout the whole night,only sleeping very little. We are ignoring her as that seems to be the general opinion,any ideas?
We have tried leaving a radio on ,the light on but no difference,tonight we are tryign a ticking clock,another suggestion.

Put an old sweaty t-shirt in with her that you've worn so it smells like you (one night wearing it in this heat should have enough of your scent on it LOL). It will comfort her and may help.

Wendy

Stick with what your breeder recommends!!!! although, id say cut out the dried food part, and just feed raw, its simpler an much more straight forward.

The reason for that is that kibble type foods are digested at different rates to raw foods, so u need to be very precise with the timing of the meals,,,, or you could end up with a pup with an upset stomach!

I feed all three of my dogs on a raw diet...all are fit and healthy, the lurcher pup i put straight onto raw at 6 weeks old when i got him, and he has not had a problem at all, never been fussy, or anything, not even the usual first few days of fussyness!

It would be foolish of me to claim that there are no risks with a raw diet, of course there are, as there are with crossing the road, breathing, getting up in a morning, etc, and feeding complete foods.......im sure you can find plenty of info about teh dangers of complete processed foods without me going into it here, there are lots of threads on here if you do a search.

So long as you practice good hygiene, keeping raw meat seperate from cooked, and from human foods, keeping it fresh etc, and never leaving dogs unattended with bones, you should be fine!!!!!

Some dogs new to a raw diet do need to learn how to chew food properly, though with a pup i suspect this wont be a problem.

Its always worth remembering that vets arent infallable and that their canine nutritional training counts for a miniscule part of their overall studies and is usually sponsered/info provided by the big dog food companies, such as Iams or Waltham.....makes you think twice!

Em

Hi, I have a 10 month old pointer and am researching raw feeding just now via the website and have requested Tim Lang's book from the library. Just now he eats complete plus tripe and I bought some chicken wings to introduce raw food. How should I make the switch - give him the wing to gnaw with the complete and watch for problems then increase the wings ? He weighs about 20kg. I alsoneed to find a raw food supplier in Edinburgh - theweb will know.

Em,

"The reason for that is that kibble type foods are digested at different rates to raw foods, so u need to be very precise with the timing of the meals,,,, "

I've heard that before but it is not true that it is unhealthy to feed raw and cooked food (dry or fresh) together. Pitcairn even has recipes for raw food to add to dry kibble. Precision is not required.

The dog's digestive system works at the same rate regardless of what's in the digestive track. What cannot be digested passes out the other end whole or nearly whole, along with fully digested food. This is very evident when you give a dog something it cannot digest well, like pieces of nuts. They do not sit in the digestive track until the stomach acids break them down - they are passed out.

Stacey

Hiya Stacey.

Possibly it is not dangerous to feed kibble and raw together, however as you say yourself;
"What cannot be digested passes out the other end whole or nearly whole, along with fully digested food."

Indeed it does, and therein lies the problem with mixing kibble and raw, the undigested food that is passed out whole has provided little or no nutritional value. Since the point of feeding raw food is to provide a better, more nutritionally sound diet than commercially prepared foods do, surely it is silly to then cause the dog to 'waste' food?

If you are going to cause the dog to waste the raw element of the diet, by passing it undigested, you might as well not feed it at all, but feed a complete diet instead.

In any case, i didnt say that feeding raw and kibble together was dangerous or particularly unhealthy, its just a pain, why buy kibble and raw when you could just buy raw???

I personally started feeding raw when i realised just how much food my dogs DID pass undigested. Now they are on a raw diet, they rarely pass anything recognisable, so that leads me to the conclusion that a totally raw diet is being utilised in the most efficient way possible.
I just cant see any kind of common sense in causing the dog to NOT digest its food efficiently.

Em

Hmmm - I feed complete and raw... purely for convenience... I feed a dried food in the morning (Burnes Venison and Rice) and either raw beef mince or tripe in the evening. Its purely for my conveneince - I tried a fully raw diet but it was just too much effort - I am NOT an efficient shopper! :) My dogs are happy and in very good condition - so I guess its horses for courses :)

Mine eat complete for breakfast, and raw with biscuit in the evening. It suits them, and suits me. No probs.
:)

Chloe that's what I do as well. They get James Wellbeloved in the morning and raw in the evening. We only just changed to JWB from Hills and they ADORE it! It had a lot of the supplements I would have put into a whole raw diet anyway, and they seem to be doing well on the 1/2 and 1/2 diet.

To the original poster - do what YOU feel comfortable doing. I know a lot of vets are against raw feeding, but educate yourself and see if you are okay with it. There are some great books out there, and some good lists - on both sides of the issue.

I recently had 'THE ' talk with my vet about our feeding as he commented on how good Savannah looked. I said what we had been feeding recently and although it wasn't his first choice, he said she looked in excellent condition so he couldn't argue with the results, and as long as the dogs stayed fit and healthy he was okay with it. Big PHEW on my part!

Wendy

:)

I don't know about anyone else, but when I tried feeding a completely raw diet to Willis, I was spending more time working out and shopping for the dogs diet than I was for the family! I think that as long as the dogs have some raw meat, and variation to their diet, then thats enough to keep them in a good condition, fit and healthy. I am always being complemented on my dogs coats, and how shiny, and neither of them have ever had a bath - its just their natural oils...and they don't smell either. I truly put that down to the variance in vitamins and oils they get from their diet :)

And one of the main benefits - no gloppy poo's!! I was worried that doing 1/2 and 1/2 would do strange things, but they're nice, small and solid. SOOO much nicer to pick up when out walking, and cleaning the back garden is so much easier. The 'bin' doesn't smell anymore either.

Wendy (leave it to dog owners to always bring the conversation round to dog poo LOL)

Some of us cannot store the quantities of raw that you need to get for it to be cost effective.

Most of the raw providers need you to order at least a 100pounds of meat.

I have managed to persuade my local supplier to let me have 30 or 35 pounds of raw (the maximum I can squeeze into the family Freezer), as long as I buy one bag of dry goods, as they deliver around me anyway.

I had used up the tripe I had in that a freind had got me in readiness for my delivery of lovely mixed raw products (they are happy to mix not having to buy a box of anything) but had a call to say they couldn't deliver this week, as the only other order they had in my area for this week was 50 pounds of meat and dry goods, so it was not economical for them to send a vehicle, and I will ahve to wait until next week.

That is why I feed kibble, with a bit of meat. The bag of dry will last roughly the same length of time as the meat, using 1 pound of meat and 600g of kibble between four of them.

Thanks so much for your suggestions and advice,we have decided not to cut out the raw feeds,at present we will continue with feeding dried complete food also but at seperate feeds and further research the Web.
The only other real problem we are experiencing is sleepness nights,which of course we expected,but not this bad. I knwo tis early days as we have only had her 5 nights,but she has cried throughout each night,with hardly any sleep,its heartbreaking,any advice?
We've tried leavign the light on,a radio but doesn't seemt o make any difference. At the moment we are ignoring(or trying to) her cries and not going down to her until around 6.00am,hopefully eventually she will go through the night without crying,perfarably until about 7.00am,perhaps this is wishful thinking!!

Helen tell the vet one of my kids ate raw meat from 8-18 months whenever he could rip into the bags behind my back and he's now 6ft tall at 14, and the other 3 all chewed bones when teething babes and it never did them any harm at all!

Helen,

I'd say follow the breeder's advice at this stage. Stay in contact with the breeder and ask her any questions you may have about your puppy's diet. She probably fed half kibble and half raw so that the new owners could choose which route they wished to go down, but she'd probably prefer the pups to be fed all raw.

Regarding the vet, this does not mean it is a bad vet, just a normal one, and you do not necessarily need to change your vet over this. You should evaluate the overall service they provide to you before deciding whether they are any good. Feeding is not their specialist area, sick animals is. If they have a good reputation locally for treating sick animals then that should help you decide whether or not to use them. If you know you do not share the same views as the vet regarding feeding, then simply do not discuss the subject with them. Look to the breeder for support in that matter. Then do your own research from books and the internet and make a decision based on what you feel comfortable with.

As a matter of interest, the only time I have been asked about which food I used was at the first puppy check (when no doubt they wished to sell me a bag of what was in the foyer). Five years on they probably think I still feed him on Hill's Large Breed Puppy as they have never asked for an update!

Good luck with whatever you decide and enjoy the new puppy.

Monty's Mum :)

Hi Helen,

If you like your vet then why switch? So what if your vet does not approve of your Weimaraner's menu - 99% of vets are going to think exactly the same way.

A bone could lodge somewhere - but so could the dozens of chew toys, edible bones, rawhide bones, smoked bones, plastic bones, dental treats and so on that are considered "safe."

Getting bacteria from raw meat is certainly possible, but very unlikely in a dog. Food passes through a dog too quickly for most bacteria to sit around cause problems. Dogs are not people and our digestive systems are not the same. Considering all the poop and rotten who-knows-what my dogs have eaten over the years none of them should have lived passed three months of age.

Stacey

Hi,
I have just had my first litter and the puppies have all been weaned on the half kibble and half raw mince and chiken wings. The reason behind this was so that the new owners could do their own research ( they were given lots of information from me as well), and make their own decisions as to which way they wished to raise their puppy. All the puppies have now gone to there new homes and out of the 6 puppies homed 3 are going the kibble way and the others are going the barf way. All the new owners know they only have to ring me for any advice. As for your vet...get a new one....Like one of the others said....what did dogs eat before kibble and tinned meat!!!!!
Karen.