Regarding the recent walkout by BA groundstaff, and now possible action by the Engineers, do you think they are being irresponsible, or have no option as they appear to be dealing with a management using bully-boy tactics?

liberty ;)

My husband worked for BA until August last year. Management are not using bully boy tactics , the Unions are using their muscle to try and stop the implementation of a new system which will stop people clocking on for others amongst other things. The smart card is designed to stop this practice which enables people NOT at work to get paid for being at work. The vast majority of people in this country use a smart card whne going to work IF they are working in a sensitive area.

BA is in danger of going under and the vast majority of BA employees have taken this on baord and are doing all they can to help the company through a difficult time. The people on strike have little or no concern for anyone except themselves.

In short , yes , they are being irresponsible and short sighted ..if BA goes under as a result of the action , none of them will have jobs to strike for

I dont believe in strikes myself as a rule..they just cause disruption and stress to people. However, I dont think BA staff are striking just because of this new card system. Morale with BA staff is really low at the moment due to lack of pay rises, redundancies and relocating engineers ect from Gatwick to Heathrow. I think this was just the icing on the cake.

But in this case it is really just blackmail. Where striking causes mass disruption to 'innocent' people, there is no justification. Most of us have two choices if we are dissatisfied with our employment - find another job or say nothing :) Unemployment is very low at present so there are other jobs out there if people want to change jobs. All the BA staff are doing is putting their jobs at more risk - it is a situation typical of the Seventies trade unions - just doesn't work now and they will get little sympathy from the average worker.

Daisy

A friend of mine works for another airline and because of the SARS virus their businiess has been severely effected as most flights are to the far east, they have had to accept hefty pay cuts to help the Airline get through this difficult time, of course they aren't happy but they are realistic, at least they will still have jobs next year.

Ingrid

I cannot see what the fuss is all about by introducing this card .... lots of firms expect people to clock on . If you are not doing anything wrong then why all the fuss ?
I would be fuming if i had saved all year for a family holiday and had to spend half of it stuck in an airport with my children .
Lel

Hi Lel

apparently the problem is not 'swiping into and out of work'. The intention is, when someone 'swipes' in for their usual 8 hour shift, they can be sent home after say 2 hours, they will then 'owe' BA the other 6 hours, so at the end of a future shift, BA can say they must stay on and work, as the company has hours owed to them; it's called Annualising Hours, and was not negotiated. I hope that makes some sense, it was explained to me by a friend who works on the Ground.
As many of them are women with children, child-care becomes a nightmare, so I can see why they felt they had to do something. Plus it would be very difficult to organise anything, not knowing how long you may have to work for :(

liberty

But which other jobs would you be paid for sitting around doing nothing :)

Daisy

Exactly Daisy ;)

Some of the ground staff are taking home more wages than senior management ;) It is a lot more complicated than has been made out , but has a lot to do with the *Spanish practices* that go on there ..sign in and stay at work when there is no work ...then stop on and get overtime ....etc etc

Too complicated to go into here to be honest , but the only people they are hurting are the public and they are risking their jobs :)

I suppose I would have had more sympathy if they hadnt chosen the week most schools break up to cause such chaos to holiday makers and their children. I shall choose a different airline for my next holiday on principle now.

Gina

i agree with all of the above but striking when they did has got the worlds attention...There is never a convenient time to strike. They are obviously proving that they are an important part of the chain. Its easy for someone in their ivory tower to make changes below them, but when was the last time they sat at a check in desk for a week

Unfortunately if it is not resolved then we can say goodbye to BA ! They are is such a venerable position, another strike will finish them off. Another British company bites the dust ! :(

Lucy

Very true lucy my auntie has worked for them for 21 years and they treat her extremely well.

Emma i agree with all of the above but striking when they did has got the worlds attention...There is never a convenient time to strike. They are obviously proving that they are an important part of the chain. Its easy for someone in their ivory tower to make changes below them, but when was the last time they sat at a check in desk for a week

I take exception to that particular piece of writing! Are you saying that anyone who doesn't work on a check-in desk at BA has no idea what it is like to work hard ? Middle management and above are not allowed to strike , nor have they had a pay rise , nor a performance bonus ..nor are they likely to until the company is back on its feet. Oh yes , and they can't earn overtime...

In a national company like BA , every person is important and everyone is expected to pull their weught in order to help the company back to its former strength.

Are you aware that some of the staff who have just been striking actually earn more than a lot of the middle management? This is possible because of the Spanish practices employed ..whereby they are able to claim overtime when it shouldn't be necessary.

They have damaged the very name of the company they are working for , BA lost millions of pounds over that week ...but that is nothing to the amount of future passengers they have now lost.

By all means voice an opinion , but don't assume that anyone that doesn't support it sits in an 'Ivory Tower'

steady
it was just a point of view im not sticking up for anyone. i did not realise it was middle management that made the decision i presumed it was chairman director etc you know fat cats. take the money whilst the staff bellow work bloody hard for every penny.
sorry to offend
emma
edited to add my post also said my aunties has worked for them for 21 years so i have a reasonable insight into the company. Also my next door neighbour was laid off by them after 32 years of service. both loved there jobs and worked hard in them. i never accused anyone of not working for there money. if they don't like it as you rightly said get out.

I have to agree with whats been said so far. The staff who are striking, at, lets face it a very tactless time (school holidays, bordering on a recession, UK companies struggling, and low confidence on the travel industry post 9/11) are doing nothing to help what was once a company to be proud of. Now get back to work, stop acting like petulant children and PUT UP WITH IT!

It makes me sick that people who are in a union can try to blackmail a company, and the people they are paid to serve, because they don't like feeling the pinch over working hours. I couldn't strike when they changed my contract at my last job, I had to put up with it.

Rant over :)

The strike was held when it was because management decided to impose a new and unpopular condition at the busiest time of the year without discussing it with the staff. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the condition being imposed management must accept as much of the blame as the staff for their timing of what they knew would be unpopular without going through proper negotiations.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

But has it occured to those staff that this could well be one of the things that is needed to be done to keep the company afloat? Perhaps they can't wait any longer? If BA really is in the amount of trouble that it seems to be in, then every single on of them will be out of a job.

If that was the case why did management not explain that to the staff - or for that matter to the press once they were criticised?

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Because if they have to explain a decision to either staff or the press by saying that the company is in crises the shares will fall through the floor and investors and shareholders will lose confidence. At the moment the strikers are deflecting the real BA issues - that the company is in debt, on its knees, and being brought down further by a militant element of staff.

JMO :)

CHLOE i agree with you i have been in that situation.
im now scared because people are cross with me. sorry to offend anyone
its just an opinion probably not the right one. One that possibly could of
been put across a little better. i don't believe in putting people over a barrel either privately or in business
emma

Hi Em :) Don't worry - not offended at all :) Its just that having been in a similar position and never worked in a job with a union, I don't see why they can get away with striking over pay/conditions etc when the rest of the country has to put up and shut up! In my industry - telecommunications - they can make 200 redundant in one day and it doesn't even make the press! In my last company they made 350 redundant when they bought out another 2 companies - who helped them? No-one!

Emma

I don't think people are cross !! Let it go over your head ! It is just a very emotive subject and it is bound to get peoples emotions up ! Everybody is entitled to their point of view and people here will accept that but also must be given a chance to air their point of view ! That is called a debate !! I think everybody here is grown up enough on here to realise that !!

I think everybody in a company has a role whether you are a clerk or a CEO. People should be paid for their experience and what they can add to a company. It may be a small contribution or it maybe a make or break contribution but all must take responsibilty in some way. Unfortunately in this current climate you can only attract the right senior people with big salaries, that is life. I do however feel there is a limit !!

Lucy

Hi Emma

Thank you for posting your opinion to my question, for what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said. I have worked for BA for almost 20yrs, and have seen the company going downhill with top-heavy management. It's not just the Ground staff who are unhappy , the Cabin Crew may soon be balloting for strike action too, if BA impose crewing levels. :(

liberty

Hi Liberty - I don't think its just the top heavy management bringing the company down - BA are just no longer competitive. I travelled on a day flight with them to Frankfurt in my last job and they charged £600 - cattle class aswell! Compared to the others - sleazy jet et all - there's just no way people, and other customer companies, can support this. Which is why, in my humble opinion, they are having to make themselves more efficient and streamlined to try and win back their business.

JMO again mind :)

Hi Chloe

Couldn't agree more!! Some of the prices are ridiculous, when you consider the service (scaled down yet again), and compare it to Easyjets prices. However if BA want their staff to operate under the same pay and conditions as the low cost carriers, then our management who earn significantly more and have 'perks' the low cost carrier management do not have, must also cut-back.;)

IMHO liberty :)

Fair comment :) - but would the middle-management strike if they were forced to take a pay cut? Just out of interest :)

Good point :D, If I ever see any around, I'll ask them :D

liberty :)

;) :D

The answer is simple. If they don't like the job then leave. There are plenty of unemployed who would jump at the chance for a steady job with a regular wage.
Bazza

Has anyone noticed that I haven't said anything yet?

That's because I don't have anything to say (for a change).

Many regards

Norm

:D @ norm

Norm

So shall I put in the 'for' or 'against' group? :)

liberty :)

Oh Liberty,

Please don't put me in either. :-) I have no idea what's going on at BA or why. Yes I read the news but I'm really not that interested. LOL

Perhaps it's my age!!! ;-)

Norm

p.s BA took us on a lovely flight to Barbados 3 years ago. Fabulous service!! The poor people who flew out with Virgin did not have such a good flight - they had to sit on the tarmac for 3 hours in a delay, we were allowed back through to the other side! Bravo BA (in that instance).

I agree - I have flown BA several times and every time the service has been excellent...unfotunately, good service these days is just not enough :(

Once again Chloe I agree entirely, the majority of the front-line staff give excellent service, but end up feeling let down by our managers. :(

IMHO

liberty

Unfortunatley, I decided about 5 years ago i would never fly BA again. I went to orlando with them and spent the 7 hours there and back in the most uncomfortable seat imgainable - for our national airline the plane was a disgrace - it needed a good overall and not just some flashy new logo on the tail! (This was shortly after the into of the new tail logos).

Since then I have flown with Virgin or gone on one of the American carriers.

I might not like BA but I still don't think they should strike as I can't believe for one minute that they were only told about the new clocking in system on that weekend before it was introduced the following week, especially as there are unions for the workers.

Tracy

I've heard about a Norm in Barbados.............was that you!!!!!!!!!!! You naughty devil!! :D :D

liberty :)

Well, that all depends on what the particular 'Norm' did while in Barbados!!

Please remember I'm a family man!!! ;-)

Norm

p.s Is there any photographic evidence??

Well I heard there was 4 pints of rum punch and 7 dusky maidens,!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry, the negatives are safe with me :D:D

liberty :)

Oh those dusky maidens!! ;-) ;-)

Rum punch? I don't remember that - but then I suppose I wouldn't, would I?

Norm

I am flying with BA in September, does anyone think that there will be more strikes

As I mentioned in an earlier post; at a recent Union meeting, there was a unanimous vote for a strike ballot by Cabin Crew IF, BA impose reduced crewing levels on the aircraft.
However in light of recent events I would hope that negotiation and not imposition would take place.

Enjoy your trip :)

liberty

Well, I've heard that next week is going to be a scorcher here in GB. Buckets and spades, candy floss and donkey rides at Rhyl - what more d'you want ? :D

Joyce you have forgotten one thing....the cold larger

i think 4 out of 10 of my reply's has alchohol involved my mind clearly wonders onto the finer things in life..

I worked for BA for a number of years both in telephone sales and then ground staff at a regional airport. I left because of the hours and also I was fed up of the general public - sometimes no matter what you do there is just no helping some people and it was basically doing my head in :-(

I spent a day at Heathrow shadowing the ground staff and quite frankly they had it a lot easier than the regional airport staff. Start at 6am and by 7.30am they were moaning because they had had to board 2 flights !! At the airport I was in you started at 6am and by 7.30am you had boarded at least 5 flights !! Because they were London based they also got paid a lot more than we did :rolleyes:

There was nearly always talks of striking over one thing or another during my years service and at one point I was considering coming out of the union so that I wouldn't have to go on strike. I don't believe in strikes and I think at the moment BA really need their staff to do all they can to help them get through this difficult time. They need dedicated and hardworking staff, not staff who up and leave at the first opportunity.

Having said all of that when I left BA they were reducing the salaries of their ground staff and quite frankly I wouldn't have got out of bed for the salaries they were offering new employees :-( Over the years I saw the "perks" diminish. For example I started off getting Performance Related Pay, Profit Share and Staff Travel. I ended up with only Staff Travel as a perk and could never get on the flights because they were always full. :-(

IMO it is a vicious circle, pay peanuts and you get monkeys. I understand that BA is going through a rough time but they really need to work on staff morale and perhaps in return they will get the dedicated hardworking staff that they used to have years ago. Where I worked we had a lot of part-timers who were desperate to be made full-time. Now when I speak to my BA friends all the full-timers are desperate to be made part-time. Hmmm what does that tell you ?! :-(

Well, they've announced losses of 45 million for this quarter, without taking into account the strikes (which has been put at a cost of "tens of millions"). Bye bye BA - I'll give em 6 months :(