Hello all,

Just recently I've been looking into buying a Doberman puppy; I have a large fenced backyard, and work from home, so I'll have plenty of time to exercise it. I'd have no problems with the dog needing constant attention, as I'd get bored if I brought a breed which crawled down the stairs, had its grub, and then slobbered away the day in front of the fire. :)

Then I looked at the prices being quoted! Now, I'm just after a healthy, Doberman puppy; I'm not concerned if it's father won Crufts 6 years running and has a Masters Degree in Neurobiology, or if it's mother was a semi-finalist on 15-1, and can speak Esperanto, as I have no plans to show the dog.

A loyal guard dog, with a lot of energy, is all I'm looking for. I don't want to go to a 'commercial' store; the ones that churn out puppies on mass, but 600 for an animal from a top breeder, is out of my price range.

Any middle ground here, or am I going to have to wrestle with my conscious about who I get the pup from, or find the extra cash?

Any replies truly appreciated,

Stu.

I'm not an expert but six hundred doesn't strike me as particularly expensive for a dobe. When you think that this would be a loyal friend for 10 years, with luck, it really isn't much of an outlay. If you're sure that this is what you want then you must expect to pay for quality and for all that goes with eg the breeder back up and knowledge. Sam.

Thanks for the reply Sam. I think you can get a pretty nice Dobe for 600 notes, mate. I've looked around the net, and not seen too many for sale at a higher price than that. Alas, that sort of price is out of my range, and I see Dobes and other pups flogged for much, much less in the local paper all the time.

I'd be reluctant to get a dog from one of these adds, but as I say, couldn't really afford a show quality dog; hense the question about the middle ground.

Thanks again,

Stu.

Stu - you're not paying for "show quality" but good quality - a big difference. It may mean the dog has show potential but the important thing for all dogs is that they have been bred by people who know the breed well, have done all the relevant health checks on the parents and then raised the puppies in the best way possible ensuring you buy and take home a healthy well adjusted puppy that gives you a fighting chance of bringing up well.

You may well get one from a paper for half the price - but the chances of it being healthy, well adjusted and a good bet are against you. The majority of dogs in rescue have come from dodgy breeding and have serious health or temperment problems. With a dog like a Dobe - you' can't afford anything dodgy.

You say you can't afford this - if you can't afford the porice for a good pup - how can you afford to keep it? Dogs are not cheap and should not be seen as such. You should ensure you can do the best that you can for your dog and if you can't afford it - then you should rethink getting one at all. Sorry if that seems harsh - but that's what responsible dog ownership is about.

Save the money and get a quality pup. You'll be glad you did in the long run - honest:)

Pam n the boys

You could get a cheaper pup from an ad in the paper and end up payin LOTS more than £600 in vets fees alone if the poor little thing has come from a puppy farm or from an inexperienced and unknowledgeable breeder who hasnt bothered doing health checks etc :(

It is worth saving up for the right dog - believe me you wont regret it .
lel

So when (if) I shell out £500-£600 on a top notch Dobe, what exactly am I paying for, and what are the advantages of buying one from a breeder rather than some dodgy advert in the local rag?

Stu. (Doing the maths and trying to scrape some cash together) :)

Hi Stu

Its not just money. You need to spend time looking for a breeder you get on with (it makes things a lot easier to have a breeder you can just pick up the phone to, day and night, for advice), a breeder that tests the pups against any hereditary diseases (to avoid a lot of heartache later), a breeder that socialises her pups and feeds them the very best quality food to give your pup the very best start in life.

Pups from papers *can* come from people who don't care where their puppies go, won't consider taking the puppy back if your circumstances change, couldn't give a toss about testing, and generally, and, in worse cases may have even been bought from a puppy farm and sold on (dealer).

The point is that you are far better spending £600 on a dog that you have chosen (with advice from the breeder who will be aware of your circumstances and what you want the dog for), with a good background support, who is of the correct breed standard, than spending £350 on a sub standard, possibly poorly, weaking puppy who may give you nothing but problems later.

HTH
Chloe

You will know both pups parents are healthy and pup is therefore unlikley to have any hereditary illnesses or health problems ( not 100% guaranteed as nothing in life is but almost 99% sure) . You also want to be sure about pups temperament . This is just as important as looks in a dog !
You will be able to build a relationship with your breeder and any time you are unsure about anything to do with your pup you will be able to speak to your beeder who can offer advice and information . Believe me that in itself is worth its weight in gold . Your breeder knows the pup , knows the parents and knows the breed inside out .
There are lots of threads on the boad about poor sickly pups and worried owners who have bought pups from puppy farms . If you do a search you will be able to read some and get an idea of the kinds of problems you could encounter . You are likely to have your dog for ten years or more and it is a long time .
Good luck

Hi, The ones in the local paper are not necessarily dodgy, you just have to be extra careful when you phone up and make sure you ask lots of questions. I was contemplating getting another dobe after mine died and phoned around some breeders, they were all charging £500-600 which i think is a fair enough price for a Dobermann, however it did vary quite a lot as to what tests etc had been done (if any). They ideally should have both parents hip/neck scored, been tested for Von Willibrands disease and tested for cardiomyopathy. If you can find a breeder that does all of this on top of producing excellent temperament you should jump at the chance to have a look at the puppies. Its a lot of money to pay so you should ensure you get the highest quality dog you can for that. Don't try and cut corners by chancing it with someone who has just mated their bitch to another random Dobe its just not worth the risk. Alternatively if you seriously can't afford a puppy price why don't you contact the Dobe rescue centres, not all of the dogs that find themselves there are problem dogs, some of the have just had a bit of bad luck with a change in family circumstances.
Clair

If you find one for a lot less than this then it is unlikely to be von Willbrands, eye tested and hip scored. this is about the going rate for a Dobe pup. My breed is about a £100 less, but then again they don't eat as much, and they are only required to have hips and eyes tested.

I would not be going for the cheap poorly bred stock in such a strong working breed. Corners then are bound to have been cut and you could end up with not only a poor looking specimin, but poor temperament and poor health to boot.

You will just have to save up a bit longer, and that time will be best spent researching all you can about the breed.

Join your local breed club and attend their events. You will learn a lot.

I do not own the breed but have friends that do, and joined their local breed club to learn more, as much of what can be learnt at educatiuonal events and health seminars can be applied to other breeds.

Think about it this way, two of the latest all singing all dancing Mobile phones cost a similar amount, and they are considered to have no more than a two year life, and you will be feeding them regularly!

The amount of money time and effort spent on rearing a litter is quite considerable. The average outlay in food paperwork, registratiohs health tests etc (not including vet expenses if things go badly) work out about £250 per pup in my breed. That doesn't take into account wear and tear on the house and Garden, washing powder and electricity, or time off work if breeder works for a living. I should think a dobe litter will cost more than mine to rear.

A good TV and sound system cost more, as would a holiday. In the first year you have a pup you should forgo a holiday, so you will actually not be out of pocket.

Hi Stu, I agree with everything that has been said so far. I had to save up for my westies and I waited about a year for my bitch, then waited quite a long time for my others, its not a case of "lets get a puppy NOW" responsible breeders dont breed a lot and you will probably have to go on someones waiting list as I did. I would recommend that you contact the breed clubs, someone should be able to give you secretarys e mail addys or phone nos. Also you have to remember how much the health checks cost I paid nealy £60 to get mine eye tested (not compulsary for my breed, yet) I know dobes have quite a lot of different problems that they can have,. maybe someone on the site could list how much it actually costs to get these health checks done, that way you can see why responsible breeders charge these prices for their pups, not to mention usually using top quality food, which doesnt come cheap either, i've just reared a litter of puppies and If I made a profit I would have been lucky, i.e. jags alone came to well over £100 and that was for 3 puppies, also remember we do get new born puppies and the mum vet checked, one which stayed two weeks extra as the owners were going on holiday. So quality does not come cheap, but at least you will know that you have bought a well socialised puppy. Why dont you find out where your nearest local shows are, go along speak to exhibitors, know you dont want to show, my pups have not gone to show homes, but excellent pet homes, buy books on the breed, then save hard and wait patiently for a litter being born, a good breeder will keep in touch with you, and expect to be asked loads and loads of questions about your lifestyle, I refused two potential buyers one of my puppies as their lifestyle I felt was not suitable to have a young puppy. Hope this helps you. Good luck and save hard.

Thanks for the reply Irene,

I wouldn't have to save up, I'd just take the required amount out of my bank account, I mean't 'out of my price range' as in I didn't think I could justify spending that much on a pet. I've got my heart set on a Dobe now though, and I may as well do things properly and get a high quality dog, through the proper channels.

So, by going to a reputerble breeder, I get a lot of what a secondhand car salesman might call 'after sales support' yes? :) Will it come with the required injections, the first set at least, or is this down to the individual breeder?

What sort of choice do I have over the sex, color (avalibility being the only factor, or will males \ females be more commonly avalible for purchase?). Also, I've seen some Dobes with cropped ears, and some with more natural looking ears - is this done per the breeders taste, or do I get a choice?

Also, at what age are the pups ready for new homes? Obviously, I'd want to have the full experiance with my dog, but I'd assume there is an established age that dogs have to reach before being homed, yes?

I quite understand the questions about lifestyle; but think I'm suited. As I said, I have a reasonable sized yard, which is high-fenced on all 3 sides, and completly flexable working hours (I work at home), so attention isn't a problem. I also live a stones-throw from the local park, which is a perfect place to walk the dog late-afternoon, when it starts to empty, and 3 \ 4 brisk walks a day wouldn't be a problem.

So, what do I do now? Contact a breeder in the Midlands area, I'd assume. Could someone please point me in the direction of a breeder in the Birmingham area, so I can discuss the next steps?

Many thanks all.

You won't get a dobermann with cropped ears - that's been illegal in this country for about a century! Some imported dogs are cropped, but they won't be for sale. All the pups for sale will have natural ears.

Pups should be ready to leave their mum at about 8 weeks of age, and will probably not have had any injections - my vet, for one, doesn't give the first injection till they are 10 weeks.

Hope this helps.
:)

Hi Stu

Are you looking at it from the point that you have to pay £600 or that the breeder is getting, say 6 x £600 and making £3,000 profit for doing nothing, it if it the latter then forget it as this is not just not the case.

What are you getting for your money - I can only speak for myself but you would be getting a pup which was guaranteed (as far as dna testing is accurate) against suffering from vWD (von Willebrands disease). A dam who has been eye tested and is clear of PHPV and has a decent hip score. If possible I would choose a mate who has also been hip and eye tested but these is not always possible. These latter tests don't guarantee that the pups won't have PHPV or suffer from hip dysplasia but at least I have done my best to avoid them. A pup who is as close to the breed standard as possible.

A dam who has been prepared for pregnancy with suitable feeding and exercise before and during gestation. Wormed for the last trimster to reduce worm burden in the pups.

Puppies who are wormed, microchipped, PHPV tested (where possible) and have been safely socialised and introduced to as many stimuli as practical before leaving me.

A lifetime's backup where I will do my best to help and if necessary take the dog back (current conditions permitting but I have always managed it so far). I do not encourage my puppy owners (or anyone else for that matter) to ring me late evening or during the night as if it is that urgent or important then it is a vet who should be consulted :) An email list where my puppy owners can chat to each other as well as me - it is surprising how often something comes up that they would not want to ring me with but are happy to email either me or each other.

I have been known to provide bed and breakfast to puppy buyers if they are travelling long distances.

Whether you plan to show a pup or not is irrevelant. To do something properly costs money and the fact a breeder has done their best to produce a healthy well balanced pup may not be of interest to you but maybe it should be?

Working from home does not necessarily mean you have the best environment to raise a pup - do you have time to keep an eye on an active Dober-pup when it is exploring and getting into mischief - a puppy, when raised properly is as much work as a new baby and toddler mixed together and training it properly to become a good canine citizen also takes time and a lot of effort.

What would you want it to guard?

Christine

Hi Christine,

No. My reservations at the price of Dobe puppies was purly based on the prices I'd seen previously in local papers, I can imagine how much work it is to breed high quality puppies, and I wouldn't viw the purcahse of a pup as me lining the pockets of some rich breeder. :)

As for pups requiring a lot of attention, almost constant attention... that's what I'm after. I want a dog that is active, full of life, and bursting with energy; not some slobbering ball of wrinkles and fat. I'm 100% sure that their is no chance of the novelty wearing off, and me neglecting the dog, either during puppyhood or as an adult.

As for what I'd want it to guard - me and my house will do. Most of the reading material I've read on Dobes tells me that you don't have to teach the breed to guard, as it's what they have been doing since the breed came about, and is second nature.

To be honest, 'guard dog' isn't the right label, as it would be in the house with me at night, not chained to a kennel. I don't want a mug who licks the face of the bloke who's nicking my DVD player though, so the natural instinct to guard will come in handy.

Dogbreedinfo.com describes the breed as 'Noble, loyal, affectionate, and bred to be an outstanding guard dog', and that's pretty much what I'm looking for. :)

Even breeds whose job is to guard doesn't always mean that the pup that you end up with will do this. I should know. My Spanish are used as guard dogs in Spain, unfortunately mine didn't realise this when people broke into the house and wrecked the place. At the time I had 4 of them in there:d:

I think the fact that the dog is in the house will be enough to put off would-be theifs. I know which direction I'd be running if I came face to face with a Dobe.

As for the ears, I wasn't aware that all Dobes for sale in England have the natural ears, I just looked a various pics on the net, some had cropped ears and some the floppy (and better looking, in my opinion) ears. Is the ear cropping a Yank thing then?

Ear cropping is a US and Continental practice. Any cropped Dobes will be foreign bred.
:)

Hi Stu

As you have already been told ear cropping is illegal in this country and some breeders even leave the tails on (well, this one does anyway :) )

It might be well worth your while joining the Midland Dobe Club and Birmingham Dobe Club. I think the Midland are quite active and if you want the details of their secretary's please contact me. (Click on Kerioak for my address)

Dobes are cropped and docked in America, Eastern Europe and, I think France, Spain, Belgium and Portugal. In Scandanavia and Germany (original home of Dobes) you cannot crop or dock and I don't think you can in the Netherlands although am not sure about this. The UK supposedly banned docking about 10 years ago but enough vets will still do it that questions aren't asked.

As for natural guarding - some will and some don't, although most look the part.

Christine

Apart from anything else if you buy a dobe from a reputable breeder it will look like a dobe.How many dogs have we all seen that are supposed to be staffies,dobes,Gsd etc etc....that look more like mongrels.I have a 'pedigree' staff who was not from a good breeder and despite serious health problems(costing £3500) and having a short time left before he is put to sleep looks nothing like a staffie should!!! Learnt my(expensive) lesson and will only ever buy from a reputable source again!
Beleive me that extra couple of hundred pounds spent now can save you a lot of money and heartache in the long run.
Archer

Buying a dog is much like buying anything else, you spend time looking around to make sure you are getting what you want. And in most cases, with goods as well as dogs, you get what you pay for, but you still put the work in and check that the supplier of the goods/dog is up to the job.

You may be lucky buying from the paper, you may be unlucky buying from a breeder, but what ever you decide, go and check where the pup was born, see the mother and talk to the breeder, have a look at the rest of the persons dogs. Are you happy with what you see, do you get on with the breeder, have they asked you enough questions so you know they are sure what you expect of the dog. Have you asked to see the test certificates of the dam and sire and are they up to date.

When you have done all that, and they are prepared to let you have a pup, ask the price, if you can afford it, buy the pup, if not, start looking again .

Ok, thanks for that everyone - could someone supply me with a the websites \ email addresses \ phone numbers of breeders is the Midlands area?

http://www.midland-dobermann-club.co.uk/ good luck :)

More of a website for after I've got the dog that one, Storm? Seems to be focused on training and puppy registration.

If you contract them then they will be able to point you in the right direction to current litters :)
Clair

Thanks a lot then. :)

Hi Stu
let us know how you get on-we're all nosey so and so's and love to here of new pups and updates on posts.
Good luck and I wish you many happy,healthy years with your new addition when you get him/her!!!
Archer

Will do. :)

Not Dobes but I thought I'd mention it. My friend's hubby wanted a Staffie, but didn't want to pay £500 fo a reputable one, so went and bought one from the free-ads paper, for £150. With NO papers, so he had No comeback on this pup. :(
This poor staff has had nothing but trouble from day 1, he wasn't weaned properly, He had dermadactic mange, which he still has at 3 years of age, which he has been treated for since he was a pup. He bled every time he had a poo, which he was on antibiotics for months for.
He is allergic to almost anything, and has to have antihistameans, continually. This poor dog has cost them thousands of pounds. And they even tryed to ring the breeder in the end, and you guessed it, they had moved. So the moral of the story is, Yes they may be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
Jane :)