A friend has approached me about information on neutering but I cannot give him much as I have never had a neutered dog .
His dog is a little younger than Gus which would make him about 6 or 7 months now and he is a Springer Spaniel .
When I asked why he wanted to do this he says his wife is pretty adamant it should be done . They havent had a dog of their own before as far as I am aware -so can anyone offer any info as to ;
WHY it should be done ?
what age is best ?
Will the dogs character alter in any way ?
Can it cause future health problems ?
Any other info much appreciated.
Lel

Springers when neutered end up with very hard to amage wooly coats. Takes a lot of hard work to make them look nice. Also if the dog is submissive by nature it can make it more so. Food may need to be cut down, and often they have increased appetite, so need to be watched carefully so as they don't get fat.

The advantages are that they won't be interested in bitches, will often cock their leg less, and tend not to get into macho posturing sessions with other males.

I would always prefer the dog to be fully mature, so that it looks like a male.

One of the main reasons for getting it done to me would be future health. No chance of testicular cancer.
My dogs have not changed in any way, since they were neutered.
I personally would not have an un-neutered dog.

Snoopy
has it affected your dogs coats in any way ?
My friend doesnt show so as long as the coat isnt affected too badly it shouldnt be too much of a concern.
I will pass on the info here - thanks both
Lel

I know a lot of springers that have been castrated and it does make their coats difficult. the ones that look decent are those who are taken to the gr5oomers every foru to six weeks to have their coats clipped. the others looks like wooly scruffy bears, and no amount of brushing and combing sems to make them look tidy.

One pareticular male was castrated very young and he is so submissive that he cannot be let off lead without other dogs trying to mount him, as they treat him like an in season bitch, and he is terrified.

The only place Robbie feels safe around other canines is at trining classes, where he has lots of freinds, but took him weeks to get over his fears.

Forgot to ask - is there any particular age at which this is best performed ??
Lel

From what I've been told, not before at least 10 months.
:)

Would a vet advise on the best age or would he just perform the op as the owners asked- or does it purely depend on the vet ??
Dont think he's actually approached the vet yet (I imagine he should be asking him all these questions and not me ).
Lel

Coat change is not just a matter of looks, in a long coat, or a double coat it can lead to skin trouble unless the greatest care is taken with the grooming. There is also a chance of all sorts of other problems too. Just because a good few get away without too much trouble at least to old age, not all do.

I would never castrate unless it was for health reasons, and I don't mean the old cancer of the testies threat. If you must remove a large proportion of your dogs hormonal system then leave it as late as your can, at least until the dog is adult, in this case about 2 years, because the hormones are needed to complete the growing up properly. By which time the behaviour that has caused the owner to decide they must castrate will have passed anyway. The vet will tell you when is best, well believe that if you will. One last thing, castration does not mend everything, the reason you are doing it may well not change or it may get worse, and castration does not replace training and looking after your dog.

Lel, whether a vet advises on the best age or does a neutering on demand, depends on whether he/she is more concerned with the welfare of the dog or their bank balance and sadly, there are too many vets who regard neutering as *a nice little earner* and do it straight away in case the client changes their mind - or their vet :-( One effect of neutering is to delay the closing of the growth plates so a dog that is castrated before he is fully adult will become much taller than is normal for his breed :-(
If your friend's wife has never had a dog before, is she the best person to make this kind of decision? It is actually quite an invasive and painful operation and I wonder whether in fact the wife wants a dog at all???
Hope you can persuade your friend not to do anything drastic in a hurry ;-)
Caro

I am concerned as to why she feels the need to have it done . The only thing I can think of is the pup may be a bit "bouncy" and they are hoping it will calm down after this . Perfectly normal puppy behaviour !!! He hasnt said this is the reason why but I m just guessing from conversations . I dont know his wife at all so cannot ask why she feels the need to have pup neutered . I am of the "IF it aint broke leave it " school . My last dog wasnt neutered and we never bred from him and he was perfectly fine in evey way and I am not planning on having Gus neutered either .
Every time I ask I just get the standard "Oh the wife wants it done" reply. Dont know what age they are planning to do it but I was surprised when it came up in conversation.
:(
Lel

Caro,

Where do you get your information about growth plates closing late because of neutering? It's the first I have ever hear or read that "excessive height" could result from neutering. If neutering affected growth at all I would expect neutering to have the opposite effect, eg., smaller adult stature. If you have a reference, I would like to know as I curious to learn how neutering could effect growth plates.

As my Cairn broke one of the two growth plates on her tibia at 5-1/2 months I know from the specialist bone vet (and x-rays) that her plates closed by the time she reached about seven months of age and before her first season. I am sure the rate of growth in each breed is slightly different, but they all seem to be within a few months of each other in terms of reaching their ultimate height.

Stacey

Hi Stacey,
I've no info about height in dogs being affected, but my farmer friends' castrated lambs grow taller, but fatter, than the uncastrated males. Most have stopped doing it because the lambs are worth less at market.
It may well have the same effect in dogs, if they are castrated young.
:)

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond to Stacey's request for a source for info on delayed closure of growth plates due to early neutering, I had to get permission to cross-post. Anyway, here is a quote that is the most easily understood, non-jargon report from rather a lot of material:
In the January 2003 issue of "Clean Run" magazine, Chris Zink, DVM, PhD
touches upon the subject of spaying/neutering.
Some interesting tidbits:

"Vets and others who work with dogs have long observed that dogs neutered
young look physically different. They often have long, gangly legs and
narrow chests. The younger the dog is neutered, the more obvious these
changes. I believe that these physical changes have the potential to affect
performance. Being taller will make the dog have to jump higher than
otherwise necessary. Perhaps the narrow chest might affect lung capacity,
although I have not seen studies that specifically address this."

"My observations were confirmed by a study that was published in the Journal
of the American Veterinary Medical Association about two years ago in which
the effects of very early neutering (six weeks to four months of age) of
approximately 4000 dogs were studied. The results showed that dogs that were
neutered young grew significantly taller."

"Testosterone plays an important role in closing the growth plates, so if
testosterone is missing (the testes are a major source of testosterone in
males) the bones will grow longer. The growth plates are soft, non-calcified
areas at the ends of the bones where new bone growth takes place. Different
growth plates close at different times, which is why teenage puppies can
look so out of proportion at times. If the growth plates are injured,
abnormal bone growth and deformities can result."

"Since the growth plates of different bones close at different ages,
neutering a dog at an age when some bones have finished growing and others
have not may lead to uneven development with some, but not all, bones being
longer than they were genetically programmed to be. I do think that this
could potentially have an adverse effect on performance."

"A study was published last year in the JAVMA demonstrating a significantly
higher incidence of ligament and tendon damage, including the dreaded and
ever-more-common rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament in neutered and
spayed dogs. Is this because of changes in growth and therefore structure?
At this point we don't know."

Her recommendation is to NOT neuter male dogs until after their growth
plates have closed, or after 14 months of age.

Stacey's observation that her cairn's growth plates had closed at 5 months may hold true for terriers (about which I know nothing) but it is certainly not true for sighthounds.
Personally, I don't think it matters what shape a mongrel is but if someone has a pedigree dog presumably they would like it to resemble a decent specimen of the breed. So neutering early does not seem without problems. Another bit of information I picked up is that nearly all prostate cancer occurs in neutered dogs.

Caro

A lot of food for thought there. Caro.

Caro,

Thanks for the reference on growth plates. I expect it does depend on the breed when the plates close, so the advice about the age to neuter is best tailored to specific breeds, or to estimated "final size" for mixed breeds. Small breeds do mature faster than large breeds - physically that is, not mentally. :-)

stacey

I have 5 springers 2 bitches and 3 dogs, the bitches were spayed when they were 6 months old and I have regretted it ever since, they dont have a problem with their coats and only need to be trimmed every 6months but they do have a weight problem which is not through over eating. I will not have the dogs done unless its absolutely necessary.

This is interesting and something I hadn't given much thought to.
My puppy is 13 weeks old and I assumed that I'd have him neutered when he was around six months old. I live in Queensland and it seems that 'all responsible' dog owners neuter their pets and that it not only benefits the pet but the owners too... (I'd feel a bit like a leper if he wasn't 'done' - but then again, who cares!). Since reading your postings am wondering whether neutering is just another moneyspinner. Charlie is on a barf diet and I'm trying to raise him well (obviously, and as we all are) - thank goodness I came across your postings as obviously I need to do a bit of research.
I don't like the idea of grooming him becoming even more difficult. Charlie hates being brushed and I've tried several brushes - he just wants to chew on them. He is learning to tolerate me cleaning his ears but he goes potty when I try and trim the hair around his feet and I'm always very careful and had no accidents. If he's neutered it seems this can only get worse. He's an english springer spaniel x cocker spaniel.

Just what Australia needs.................another unneutered cross-breed.

Thank you for your helpful post Minicooper!

As for the question about neutering a spaniel cross breed. I would expect you to see the same effect on the coat as a pure breed for either the Springer or the Cocker as the have similar coats - just the Cocker has more. It will go wooly and need clipping rather than stripping.

A good groomer can trim it and make it look reasonable - it'll never look the same though - especially the ears.

If you know you can keep your boy away from any bitches at all times - then it's OK for you not to neuter - if you can't then you really need to think about getting him done. I would never say that unwanted puppies are a worthwhile price for keeping a nice coat.

hth

Pam n the boys

When a new puppy purchaser buys a puppy, do they say they will drop it off at the nearest shelter in a couple of years (or months)? Of course not! They say they are going to keep this puppy for life!
Of course the owner of an unneutered dog is going to say it will be kept away from any bitches!
I agree with one thing you said, ". I would never say that unwanted puppies are a worthwhile price for keeping a nice coat."

I'm not very "Computer Literate" so I don't understand what "hth" means.

Pauline

I don't see what your point is....? If the *irresponsible* owner says they are going to keep an un-neutered dog away from bitches, and then doesn't - whats going to make them pay to get the dog neutered in the first place?! Yes, I agree that rescue dogs should ALL be neutered... but not *everyone* who gets a puppy is irresponsibe :)

My point is actually, if more owners were encouraged to have their dogs neutered, there would not be the problem of unplanned litters.
This particular posting was going to have his dog neutered until he read the posts against it. I don't see what that achieved.

I don't know if "Most" pet owners are irresponsible, but a good proportion of them are.

Pauline

I personally feel tat if you are looking to have an irreversible procedure done on your dog you should be in full possession of the facts...if, having been given the facts, experiences and opinions of people who have had dogs neutered (and not always positive ones) the person makes their own mind up to think about it a little more or not have it done - then that is their decision. You can't have it all ways and just have positive responses! :)

I understand what you are saying, but, in this instance, those same people should be made to be responsible for any outcome. Can you think of a way to make an owner responsible for an unwanted litter?

Pauline

Hi Chloe,

"Yes, I agree that rescue dogs should ALL be neutered... "

Not sure what you mean by your statement above in terms of why you have singled out rescue dogs for neutering.

Stacey

Lots of reasons, the main one being that if you take on a rescue you have no prior knowledge of what that dog will be like around bitches (escape artist) or what the bitch will be like when in season. The reason I have no problems with my dogs is that they have been trained not to wander, not to leave the garden, and nothing could get Willis to jump over a fence - not even a bitch in season with a sign saying "here i am!"

If someone takes home a 3 year old dog from a resuce, with no prior history, and that dog is over the fence and gone in the first week - then neutering could have prevented this, and, indeed will prevent any puppies arising from it.

If someone looks into a breed, waits for a puppy, purchases from a good breeder and raises it well, and are responsible owners, then surely they should have the choice on whether they neuter or not?

Chloe,

I would never argue against having a choice about neutering, I was just curious why you believed ALL rescue dogs should be neutered. I would extend that freedom of choice to any dog owner, including rescues. I do not think neutering is a cure all to fence jumping and wandering, I have too many examples in my own neighborhood who love to wander and are neutered. It's the owner, not the dog, that is the problem.

I am glad your dogs are so well trained they would not even try to reach a bitch in season, most would not give in to instinct.

Stacey

But if the dogs neutered and it escapes, then the consequences are not so severe... thats my point. I don't have the need to neuter mine because they don't wonder and are not escape artists.

Pauline - hth means "hope that helps" and was addressed to the owner of the dog in question.:)

You are singling out the irresponsible owners who imho - should not have any dog let alone an uneutered one. Anyone who is going to abandon their dog is not worthy of the priveledge of owning one in the first place. Many dogs end up in rescue though because their owners suffer some personal trauma making it impossible to keep their dog. It breaks their heart to let them go - but it's the best for the dog. None of this supports the case for routine neutering. It supports the case for informed breeding and homing of all puppies and adult dogs and responsible ownership.

Unfortunately, the type of person - with the exception of our trolls, who comes on here and geniunely asks for help is llikely to fall into the responsible owner category and so will make all attemots to keep their dog or bitch under control and not cause an unwanted litter.

I have been around dogs all my like, 40+ years. We have had bitches and dogs, never had them neutered, never had an unwanted pregnancy or caused one or any health problems relating to not being neutered and none of them were kept in a prison. The bitches were kept away from other dogs when in season - it didn't bother them a jot. The responsibility of controlling a bitch lies with it's owner. It's not reasonable to expect others to neuter their dogs so that they can let a "ready" bitch wander around. Similarly, it's the responsibility of the dog owner if they have a wanderer to bring it under control. If they can't fence their garden adequately then they should think about not keeping the dog - as if it can get out it's not safe, and get him neutered.

jmho

Pam n the boys

Hi , having just rescued a puppy,from the R.S.P.C.A.i knew their policy was to neuter all dogs (i understand why ,and i agree ),but as we were taking on such a young pup i asked if there was anyway we could wait until after her first season as our vet said it is preferable ,it seems that while they home check you, meet everyone in the home (including all animals) and take every adoption as individualit seems,there are no exceptions!as they come back and do a follow up surely they could then check she had had the op ,i know it has to be a blanket policy ,but if there are so many possible health problems !is it really in the dogs best interest to neuter so young ?Sue T. x P.S.

Sue,

Do not worry, there aren't a lot of health problems with early neutering. The operation itself is actually easier on a bitch if it is done before her first season. For either a dog or a bitch, the problems resulting from neutering before sexual maturity are really rather small. Some aren't even problems unless you want them to be, like a different coat texture or some difference is size/physique which would be unoticeable unless it is a pure bred and unless you are a breed expert.

Stacey

Hi Stacey,thanks for that info ,i must admit i was not aware that there could be problems with neutering while very young i just knew that the R.S.P.C.A insisted .on all dogs being "done"!anyway Lola is a crossbreed (Westie xLhasa Apso) i dont think her physique or size will matter too much ,she has the Lhasa Apso coat and body with a semi curled tail and a westie head ...odd ..but cute ,once again thanks for your help Take care Sue T. x