Did anyone see the Pet Rescue a while ago, with the litter of Staffie pups who picked on and killed one of their mumber, and seriously hurt another?

If I remember rightly, the little bitch who had been picked on was saved and the rest put to sleep.

I was reading a dog mag t'other day and a Staffie owner wrote in and stated her anger, because she said this was normal behaviour, and Staffie breeders knew o f this and would separate the more aggressive pups and keep them separately. Think it was also brought up in Dog World?

I have to say I alm surprised as I have neverheard of this, and it can't be good for the more aggressive pups to be separated, as surely it would only make them worse towards other dogs in general?

I would be most interested to hear of anyone's views, especially any Staffie breeders who may be on the forum. I'm still really amazed and don't knowwhether to believe it

Certainly nothing I've heard Lindsay. Although most Staffie's I know of are with one dog families so obviously no chance of trouble, but I've been around for rather a long time and would have thought I would have heard something somewhere!! I'm interested to hear any feedback on this one.

Regards, John

the report in DW certainly said that the staffie folk were up in arms as its common staffy behaviour & they all felt a staffie person should have been consulted so that "staffie" advice could have been given & the pups saved. I have to say I have no experience of this breed, but I do keep working terriers & if this litter had been mine I would have done the same thing....I would have been horrified at such behaviour! Guess its the 1st (and probably the last!) time I will agree with something the RSPCA have done!

My sister has just got a Staffie pup. She saw all the puppies together in the pen, there was no aggression just a happy bunch of puppies. The one she has is very nice temperament wise and gets on with her older dog Boo very well. I had never heard of this before I read it in Dog World.

Hi Lindsay

All the staffie people I know were appalled that the puppies were left alone & without simulation for most of the time & that the puppies were probably older than the kennels said

I think this was the same kennels that left a malnourished Great Dane maiden mother(the mum looked to be a quarter of the weight she should have been) alone with the puppies even though she was obviously NOT coping with them(was throwing bedding etc around & messing in the bed etc)

The bitch ate most of the litter & the first time she ate the puppies they thought they'd been stolen & left her AGAIN alone over night when she ate more puppies & they consulted a LAB guide dog breeder about the bitch ! finally hand rearing them I believe

I personally could not believe it that they would leave a bitch alone ONCE let alone twice

But then that's the RSPCA one law for them & one for everyone else

Whether there is truth in this story or not I think the one thing we must all agree is to avoid branding all Staffies in the same way. I have a Staffie x bred dog who was agressive with all people when I first rescued him ... his general rule of thumb then was attack first ask later. He had been beaten and thrown from a car .... 5years on he is wonderful with everyone. His confidence just needed rebuilding in people. Now if he is injured he needs his mum to kiss the wound better!!

Generally stories like this could be true of any breed where not raised correctly would be my guess. We once had a litter of terrier puppies in and two of the girls in that litter loathed the site of each other and would have fought to the death ... they were however fine with other pups, and both have subsequently been homed with other dogs and are fine. So much of behaviour in dogs comes from environment that it is difficult to blame. The terrier puppies we had which fought did so after spending so much time together in an enclosed environment with little or no stimulation.

In short I think with dogs ... what you give is what you get.

Caitlin

i saw the program and followed the progress, it was a staffie bitch that whelped but they didn't know what the sire was,i have freinds that breed staffies and have seen an odd skirmish but its soon over, this litter on one of the last shots was in my opinion behaving on the defensive with the camera crew, stiff and wild eyed while barking at them ,as the crew had obviously been with them through most of the filming i found there attitude to people really concerning, i was also horrified that theyd killed a sibling,as for the rspca ,i feel in that situation they did the right thing but,!!!did anyone see the one where a bitch had fading puppys and they where dying one after the other and tests where sent off, then a couple of episodes later they where nursing the remaining pups and had brought another litter in to be weaned in the same room, they also started to die and when it all came out the first ones hasd parvo, so it had then been introduced to the older healthy litter and wiped those out and if i remember rightly the second litters dam died too as she must of had no cover,i thought all of that was disgusting and an obvious risk to the second litter.

Hi all

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this, I agree Staffies can be super little dogs but as the Staffie people themselves seem to think that it is normal for them to be aggressive in a serious way to their own littermates, I was rather taken aback. Like John, I had only recently heard about this.

For instance, I wondered if such litters would tend to be aggressive towards other dogs, or whether it was just a matter of practice within thier own litter. Or whether it was perhpas certain bloodlines. Or even if it was something that had started recently in which case i would be getting a bit worried if I met a Staffie or two with my puppy out on a walk., whereas in the past I never have been worried.

Lindsay

Lindsay,

My brother has a Staffy who is 10 now and she is a great dog with adults and kids and loves people to bits.

But she can be untrustworthy with other dogs for example she was more and less bought up with my Dad's dog and they are great friends both bitches.
She is ok with my BC who is male but I cannot have the staff and my Lab together as it just results in a fight and it is true that staffs lock there jaws in a fight and it is a bugger to get them to let go.

Karen

HI Karen

I've heard about the jaw locking, and apparently if Staffies are in a fight it is safer to interfere than with most dogs as they have been bred to be able to be handled even when fighting. I hope Staffie breeders are being responsible about their breed and breeding for equable temperaments as far as they can.

One can only hope so anyway :)

I'll second that Lindsay! Temperament is just about the most important part of the makeup of a dog and with the present climate of anti dog feeling any breed which is of unsafe charactor is going to help destroy the good name of both dogs and dog owners.

Regards, John

Absolutely John!

LIndsay

hi i have been breeding and showing staffs for some time now i have never had to split my pups,at the mo ihave 5 adults in there bed in the kitchen there are only 3 beds as there like to sleep lieing on top of each other and the otherbed were not gettingused sotook them out,i get the odd grumble as with all breeds but never anybig probs the oldest is now 5 and the youngest 16mths,
i think alot of it is to do with the upbringing my dogs go over the park and play with other dogs large and small they have done this since pups with no probs and no signs of agression.

Hi Pemrouge

Thanks for your contribution, I am interested to hear from someone who actually does breed Staffies.

Have you ever heard of this problem before, or do you feel it is a new thing?

It's good to know that your dogs/pups are well socialised!

Lindsay

Welcome to the forum Pemrouge and thank you for your input :-) Leigh

hi all,i have never heard of this my freind has a reg staff kennels and been breeding staffs for 20 years and also has never had this prob with his pups,this is seen in the english bull dogs mums will kill there pups sometimes at birth,i didnt see this on tv so carnt realysay alot about it but i do wonder if these pups may have been cross staffs as alot of people are putting the other bull dog breeds back to staffs trying to get power dogs this carnt be goodas far as the staffs go and islickly to cause probs,the latest thing i have seen is people useing american bull dogs which look like staffs but much larger shame for the staff but what can you do,this isgoing to get the staff a bad name,how do you tell a staff from a staff look a like only dna can tell,but a large dog bitting which looks like a staff there not going to dna test to see if its a cross justgoing to blame a staff,
take a min to think your out with your dog a dog staffie looking bites your go you go home quikly to get your dog away was that dog staff,staffxpitball,staff x american bull dog,staff x rottweiler,could you realy say its a pure breed staff?

food for thought.

Yes definitely food for thought, it seems as if the Staffies may be OK generally at the moment anyway, so long as the dog seen is not a X, with an American Staffie.It is a shame some people want to "bugger about" and get the power dogs because to me that is just daft macho stuff :(

Lindsay

first the lady was a bull terrier breeder and secondly yes they can be like that. but i would not split them as the one that likes to fight needs to be around other dogs to learn not 2 and most of the time it is just play fighing. and you should always try 2 be on hand 2 split up any fights and if your not then the puppies mother should be there and she should get involved, thats why a lot of staff puppies go from there mother at 6 weeks and not 8 so they can bond with there new owners and not get bord looking at the same puppy faces. but if you have a pup that likes to fight then you must tell the new owner so that they can carry on sosalising it(sorry not good at spelling) and take it to puppy classes. i have 4 staff at the moment and like most other dogs they like to play fight but they have not had a proper fight YET :D. i have had six staffords litter to date and have not had any trouble like this, i also tend to think that they might have been crossed and like said how can you tell a stafford from a pit bull when the only diffrence is that a pit bull is taller.

Bobby

by the way there is one more thing to remember Staffords were breed for dog fighting and ratting and a lot of this is still in the breed today and of couse it comes out in the puppies and that is why you should breed for temproment and nothing eles, also a good stafford should never go for a human as this was also breed in. :p

Bobby

Hi i am a Bull Terrier breeder and have just started to read the posts on the Staffie pups i did read it in DW and in MY opinion they should have never seperated the litter.
My pups start rifting at aged 6 weeks its just dominance though and they sort out a leader soon they dont fight to kill and ive never had torn ears just scratches ect Bull breeds are not like Labradors and thats what poeple forget as someone said earlier they were bred to fight other dogs WE taught and encouraged them they are a man made breed and we all moan when they dislike other dogs when staffies are voicing their opinions at the shows other breeds owners rant and rave, i can deal with a dislike of other dogs its when its peope thats a BIG problem and i wouldnt abide it i have 8 bull terriers who live happily together both males and females ages from 9yrs - 9 wks in my home they either get along or then they get to go in a kennel they all choose to be friends (i wonder why) bullies hate rain ect .....nice to talk to u
vicki Binns
Activior Bull Terriers

I think with in fighting with dogs in their home has a lot to do with how the owner is perceived and respected, though some dogs will always hate each other and persist in fighting. I wonder if the pups were seperated early from Mum, as I have seen done in some of these rescue programs. Mother would normally intervene if things got out of hand, wouldn't she?

Thanks guys for the extra inmput, i was very intersted to read everyone's thoughts and especially those from people involved in some way with the breed. As I remember the one pup was killed and i found it strange when i was informed that this behaviur could be normal!! Scarey for dogs the adult pups may meet in the future was my main concern.

I actually like Staffies etc but thank god have only met fairly OK ones when out walking my dogs in the past.

I think one poster was right in mentinong the way we have bred them and what for - posturing at shows etc, based presumably on the dogs' history..... a friend showng her BC at one show said the BC's had to go past the Staffies and several BC's got "attacked" by the Staffies. I really think and hope that in this day and age with various Acts etc, Staffie and other bull breeders are taking into account the fact that these dogs need to be both people frienldy AND dog friendly.

I try to treat all dogs the same but could not be responsible for my actions if my Banya was seriously attacked by ANY dog with intent to maim her or kill.

I seem to remember that the mother of the pups in question was unwell or something so was not with them, as someone said perhpas the mother would have stopped the fighting before one pup was killed.

Hi all,
I apolagise for not posting for some time now, I've been in and out of hospital for the past couple of months but am sooooooo glad to be home again!
Well I wont hold back, might as well make up 4 lost time n all that...its gonna be a long post.....sorry.

I was really sickened when I read this thread and have never heard of Staffie puppies acting this way??
If anyone rememebers me Im a Staffie and English Bull Terrier owner and have NEVER seen or heard of this kind of behaviour with these breed of dogs!

Jeez talk about creating mass hysteria....What was the "so called" Staffie experts thinking!?????

My parent have ALWAYS kept fire side Staffords and English Bull Terriers (since the 60's) and have had odd litters and have NEVER seen anything like this!

My own Staffie was the runt of his litter and was NEVER picked on to the extent of attack, just the usual puppy behaviour.
My Bully was the same, very boistrus but nothing serious at all.

For ANY breed to kill a sibling there is a problem be it lack of parental intervention on the bitches part or due to breeding from bad stock the long and short of the matter is, its not normal! And anyone who says its charecteristic of ANY breed are crazy! How can u justify it???

Bull breeds were bred for sport, they were fighting dogs (not a past owners are proud of) but these dogs are now bred for thier loyalty, companionship and fantastic nature.
As owners it is our responsability to raise, happy, healthy, well socialised dogs and instill knowledge where there is predudices and ignorance.(I sound like a super Hero!) LOL

Seriously though there are people out there who breed for the money/ status symbol we all know about them....unfortunatly the staffie falls into the Status catagory so alot of irrisponsable thugs own them.

Bull Terrier breeds are very outgoing/ boistrus/ strong willed/ stubourn/ noisy, hence the expression Bull in a china shop. Training and proper socialisation from a young age usually helps but never cures this, its some of the great qualities owners have come to accept. I guess what Im trying to say is dont judge a book by its cover, there are good and bad in all people/ dogs/ cats reguardless of age, colour or breed.

Unfortunatly I spend my walks justifying myself to people when they turn thier noses up at me because of the dogs I keep.
In the wrong hands any breed can turn out nasty. With the right training any dog can become a great member of the family.

In my eyes people who breed from dogs with social problems or breed for the profit alone should be punished.
Any owner who willfully trains/ provokes/ encourages bad temprament should also be punished.
Please rememeber is not the breed its the owners.

I'd be more than happy to post/mail any pictures of my 2 dogs and my 2 year old son playing, if it halped raise awareness that not all dogs confined to these breeds are the same. I always try to make sure people meet my 2 when Im walking them, I always find people change thier veiws after meeting them instead of crossing the street.

Hope this helps
Lucy X

I have to agree with everything you say Lucy, especially as you have said, what are the Staffie "experts" thinking of?!

That is my point exactly and why i was so worried! I do like the bull breeds very much myself and am a fan of Morris - you know, from the DT magazine?

You sound like a very sensible owner and it must be very difficult for you to hear what Staffie breedeers seem to think or believe is "normal".....

Lindsay