hi,

our 2yr old spayed border collie bitch is obedient and well behaved indoors, except for constant stalking and staring at the cats

outside when walking she pulls on the lead, despite trying numerous methods. I give a few months perseverence at each method, i dont swap and change which would be confusing.

however, she also takes an instant like or dislike to other dogs when we walk, and becomes instantly aggressive and tries to attack them.

a couple of days ago in the park, she was approached by two dogs. i kept her by me when the first one approached, and she was fine and went off to play. the other one approached soon after and she attacked it immediately and had to be pulled off.

knowing how she is on the lead with other dogs, she is rarely off the lead when other dogs are around, and this just confirmed my fears about why i only let her off when we are alone.

the reason this is a big problem now is that we have a new baby due any day, and since seeing this behaviour, my wife is very anxious about the safety of having her around once the baby is born.

when walking since a puppy, she has been socialised with dogs we met whenever possible, but as we walk the same route taking the kids to school, it soon became a problem meeting dogs she does not like

i have been reading up on the problems on this and other sites, and recognise that the aggression is a sign of fear/nervousness but it seems to be a catch 22 situation with meetings other dogs now, as the owners take a wide berth or shrink off into the bushes until we go past.

as much as we and the kids love our dog, we cannot run the risk of something happening in the future, and have to consider giving her up for re-homing, as, sad to say, we probably wont have enough time to attempt to retrain her in the very near future, and cannot afford to let this go further

can anyone offer any help/advice or suggestions ?

as far as I know aggressiveness towards dogs does not mean the dog will not accept your baby or ever cause it any harm although I am certainly no expert just remembering other posts.

Have you ever taken her to training classes.
At the classes I go to there is a terrier that barks at everything that moves and he is gradually getting better after each class.

Dont give up on her yet.
The training would only be on her walks so if you've got enough time to walk her you've got enough time to train her

I'm sure someone with more practical advice will be along soon

Good Luck

Rachael

I was recently looking into rehoming a BC, and I got some excellent advice from a couple of sites on the net. They sent me some extremely informative breed information too - I'll forward it to you if you let me have your email address. BC's are very complex characters, and the majority I have met seem to have a problem with other dogs (due, I believe to insufficient training and mind occupation) - however, it does not mean your dog will be anything other than excellent with your new baby...BUT if you start giving off signals that you are unhappy with her, or you start to exclude her from the family when the baby arrives, you are setting yourself up for more problems...

BC's are a high maintenance breed - she should really be receiving a high level of training now to occupy that mind, but I fear from your post that she is asking more than you can give her.

If I were you I would set aside an hour training a day, plus a half hour for a walk, and see how you get on with that. Take her to training classes, or maybe try her with agility once or twice a week - give her a job to do.
Involve the dog when the baby arrives, but take care without excluding the dog. She may find the high pitched screaming upsetting at first, so take care getting her used to it. And if you do decide to rehome her, then please try and use one of the specific breed rescues.

HTH
Chloe

Chloe,
many thanks for your input.
my email address is craig AT avnet DOT co DOT uk

i believe some of the problem to be my own naivety/ignorance while bringing her up, which should be read as insufficient traiing :(

she is walked almost every morning when i take the kids to school before work, and at least one long walk over the weekend.
the hour training per day is a bit more difficult to achieve

I am very keen to know what good/bad signals to use and avoid, as the baby is overdue now...
and how to involve them together safely

Hi Craig - I'll forward that stuff through to you

You have made the first step forward in realising that you might not be dealing with her properly... don't give up on her yet - make the time for her...because when the baby arrives she will provide a welcome distraction, and if you bring them up together properly you will have a very faithful companion for your family :)

The best piece of advice I was given was that BC's don't need a huge amount of exercise - so, spend 30 mins in the morning training her and then 30 mins at night and a 20 minute walk - see, not so much more than you are doing now... but the objective is to get her to use her mind :)

HTH - you can email me whenever you like - but I am only regurgitating what i have learned from people with more experience than me - and there will be more people on here to help shortly I'm sure :)

Doglistener....where are you????

thanks chloe
you have mail.
the re-homing issue was raised because the out of character reaction by her is very concerning with the baby due.

people are one thing to a dog, but babies are more vulnerable and are not human to a dog until it is taught so

how do i get this message across to our dog ?

Sorry to butt in....!
First thing is to now get your dog into the routine you hope ;) to have when the baby arrives. Make any changes such as where the dog sleeps etc before the baby, so the dog can't associate any changes with it.
When your wife is having the baby (in hospital?) make sure you bring home her nighties and the baby's clothes and nappies so that the dog can get used to this strange smell. Then, when I brought my baby home from the hospital, the midwife told me to put the carrycot on the floor and let the dogs have a good sniff and a lick, so that they knew what this alien creature was!
And let the dog see what's happening when the baby is fed, changed etc. Don't shut her out, as this will cause her stress and resentment.
Like an older child, don't let the dog feel usurped.
We had no problems doing it the midwife's way, so it should work with you, too.

Oh, and don't forget to do 'stuff' with the dog on her own, as well - walks, training, etc. She's part of the family, too!
:)

Thats good advice :)

I also suggested Craig trains the dog to "fetch the nappy" and stuff, so she feels like she has a "job" to do... also to let his wife have the dog near her when feeding the baby too... this is often the point where dogs really get pushed away.

the dog sleeps in its own bed, in the kitchen, behind a stair gate.
always has, and has never been any trouble. never whined or anything
she is happy to be there.

there have been no changes to the surroundings or anything like that

hopefully, the hospital visit will be very short (the last one was in and out in 5 hours !!), which means we might not have enough time to use the procedure you mention, although we will try....

the problem is, had we not seen how strong and focused the attack was on the other dog just days before the baby was born, then we not have worried, but if she can show that aggression for no reason to an unkown dog, then an unknown child is just as vulnerable

as much as we love her as the family member she is, we have to view her slightly differently now...
there will always be a little nagging doubt for a long time to come...

i would rather lose our dog now, than our child later.
that may seem an over reaction to some of you, but it took only a split second in the park the other day and the dog had to have stitches !!

however, i have read a lot of information over the last couple of days, and we are trying to change our approach now. we want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and help her along...

i am trying to find a reputable professional in my area (surrey) that i can contact, so thats my next piece of net trawling...

Email the people who I got the replies from - I am sure they will be happy to help you :)

One thing to bear in mind is that a dog can detest other dogs and be fine with children. The old mongrel I grew up with was a confirmed fighter with other dogs, but was 110% reliable with children.
:)

Hi how old are your other children was she introduced to them as a puppy .You may see her attacking the other dog as being unprovoked but may have missed some doggy body language that she didn't. Jeangenies advice is sound let her sniff the baby and dont shout her out when doing anything also if you can manage it give her treats when her behaviour is good.As has also been said alot of exercise only makes a bc fitter to get into more trouble the mentle stimulation is the key to having a happy dog by all means give her exercise but cutting that down slightly to give her more training will only help. Best Wishes Gillian

Hi - you have mail back...

Dogs can be suprisingly gentle with babies - my old dally (blass him) took a sniff and a lick and that was that - and Mollie (my daughter) learned to walk by holding onto his big spotty shoulders while he walked round gently... she adored him, never hurt him, or teased him, and they used to go to sleep in his basket together - I have a pic to prove it!!

He did used to pinch her dummy though and walk round with it held in his mouth :rolleyes: :D

My sister had the very same problem with her border collie she rescued, she was approx two years old.

She would attack almost anything she came across.

Some advice we recived was , that the food was possibley too high in protein and causing excessive amounts of energy/frustration within.
She changed the food to food with less protein also someone suggested sepia to calm her. This along with alot of training has worked wonders. She is an absolutely lovely dog now.
Time, effort and patience were the key things here.

oh and a bit of trust, when the problem was easing off.

There is an excellent book called "Understanding the Border Collie" by Carol Price, it's available from www.crosskeysbooks.com

Good luck with her

Lindsay