Just heard about this today, and dont know wether to laugh or cry. someone in my breed had a litter recently (pups just over a week old now) they are a reasonably well know name in the breed, but have had little success in recent years. However, they do a really great self promotion job and sell loads of pups as top class show prospects, however this recent litter takes the biscuit - the people who have been given pick of dogs in the litter are happily bragging about how wonderful the new pups is (remember not yet 2 weeks old) and that it is a guaranteed champion - so guaranteed that they know the 3 shows it will get its tickets at!;). Should I give them credit fo a brilliant job of both salesmanship and judge fixing or get them on the lastest programme on the TV about being psychic?
bye
Gwen

Maybe they could also guarantee Wednesdays winning lottery numbers too :D :D

Let me know if they do !!!!!

liberty :)

Apart from anything wls, no matter how nice a dog, one needs a certain amount oluck to get them made up too. some dogs have runs of RCCs before getting tickets and then really flying, and others get one two three, and never hit the top spots much after. All in the lap of the Gods, and how good the oposition is at a given time.

I have a friend in Kees with a lovely CC winning bitch, who has just had her 7th RCC in a row, she may never get there, or her luck could turn.

They should be nomomnated for Psychic of the year!!!

Haven't mastered emoticons. However my eyes are rolling all over the place!!

Thinking about this further, it makes you realise just how gullible some people are. I suppose this is what all scams rely on, though, people being willing to believe the impossible will happen to them, and being prepared to part with money to those making the promise!
bye
Gwen

The thing is Gwen thoise gullible enough to beleive it, are the ones who will think they have a show dog because it can win a class at an Open show,or after a year of campaigning qualify it for Crufts.

It all comes down to what one considers show potential. Assuming that the best of typical lines have been used, aside from markings most typical pups could be shown and win something, and for many just starting that is enough so they are happy, and have no idea they have been duped.

On the other hand you sell a promising puppy to a pet home (somtimes you just don't get someone interested in showing, and first and foremost a pup needs a good home), you suggest the pup is promising, and if you do mange to get them to enter a show sometimes when the dog is adult, they are quite shocked that they have done well.

There is a dog I bred on two CCs and a RCC like that (and I still think his unshown brother a much better dog) who wasn't shown until Two years old, and I suppose the sae could be said of my Chaqmpion bitch, as if she didn't come back to me her owners would probably never have shown her.

Gwen, Brainless

Gullible is sadly seen often but some people genuinely are brought up to believe people and trust people. If they have been fortunate or maybe unfortunate to have missed to lengths people will go to just make a pound they are no suspicious.

I have heard some crackers recently, some even using the name of this board as some kind of verification to the status..

the whole thing is sad, I just wonder if it is on in increase or the decrease.

We give people the internet to open their eyes and help them but also the crooks to get there flashy business (on the exterior) more publicity. :-(

Pam

Mind you in some breeds certain breeders could almost guarantee it :rolleyes: I've seen one myself that I'm sure could show a mongrel and still get a ticket :D

In this age of litigation you'd think that breeders would be wary of giving puppy buyers unrealistic expectations. Wishful thinking is one thing, we have all daydreamed about making up a Champion, but for most of us this is never going to happen. The show ring is full of 'also rans' carrying there owners hopes and dreams. I'm happy if I'm placed at all.I go to Dog Shows because I love to. My dogs are very well bred, and all came to me as potential show prospects, but sh** happens. I've been around long enough to know that theres no such thing as a dead cert.So my sympathy goes to the people who are taking this rubbish in. On the other hand how could anyone believe it!
Dawn R.

Dawn , Litigation you are kidding, they know the liabilities are restricted to what people are prepared to do or lengths they are prepared to go and most people don't bother due to the hastle and strength. The only people who worry about litigation are the ones doing it RIGHT ..

I know someone who picked up a puppy last week form someone she had trusted/chatted to every other day for well over 12 weeks from booking and collecting puppy. They trusted so much and the lady preached her ethics etc that they never noticed till the got home that the KC papers were not with the pencil written pedigree and they little Archie would never be registered. The breeder now refuses to answer the ladys calls.

Sad, it makes me boil .

Pam

Really! Do tell!

Gwen, :-)

It makes a mockery of what all good breeders try to do,

I recently was asked for a reference of a breeder and the info that was forwarded to me was that the puppy was form CH this and ch that is if the person searched on the internet for these champions they would get an idea just how the puppy would look when older. I then saw or was told of the parents and managed to get a nosey at the pedigree and 4 generations of nothing barr Lucy, minty may , mummy's girl not a show dog or know affix at all and 2 repeat father daughter matings then in the last line was 2 champions .

This person was using the hard work of others some 10-15 years ago to sell her dogs.

I think it is disgusting I really do.

I have had my eyes opened recently to what people will sadly do to turn a £

One of the engineers at my work a few years back had a similar con do the same to him, he thought it could not have happened to him as his vetting policies were so good, he then found out the breeder was one step ahead.

We were discussing it yesterday and he was telling me he is going to set a virtual name and shame website with photos the lot LOL. he said he would only have 100% truths but he runs servers and hosts for websites and said he could do it confidently without any recurrance.

This would be interesting and certainly funny if it could be done.

BFN Pam

i heard that if you say thinks likes this to the new owners,that the owners can come back up to 6 years after the sale,if the dog has not done well and was sold as a show quailty puppies they can sue the breeder,that why my dogs are so as pet first then its up to the new owner what they want to do,i would keep my mouth shut.we say thinks like that but we all know what showing like.

I just want to know if I can buy their Crystal Ball, it would save me a lot of time and heartache if I could predict which of my pups was going to be a champion at that age. :-D :-D

One of the things that is most amusing (or saddest, depending on your point of view) is that the breeders have only made up 1 dog in the last 5 or 6 years, and this one was an imported Champion, it took them almost 3 years to get his 3 tickets and these were all from close friends! Yet the potential buyers are genuinely thrilled at the prospect of this "guaranteed" champion! I think people must get blinded by dreams of glory, and dont sit back and look at what the 'self promoter' actually takes in the ring themselves.

It would be interesting to see if litigating ever did ensue, but in this instance no advertising was involved, it is all word or mouth. And I bet if you did ask to buy their Chrystal ball they would sell it to you, and a vast price and with all sorts of promises about how it was destined to be the BEST chrystal ball ever! ;)

Ahhh but Gwen

Just think of the money I could make renting it out to everyone expecting a litter

:-D :-D ;-)

Its sad but you got to laugh at people wanting to do things the quick way.

Both of my Champions are homebred and a lot of time energy and thought went into their breeding, hence more satisfaction with the outcome!!!

See I just don't get this!! I know there are gullible people out there, heck I can be a bit naive at times, and when I bought Savannah I knew NOTHING of the show world. We were looking for a pet, the breeder said she was show quality from what they could tell at the time and said if we'd be willing to show her they'd appreciate it, but she was ours either way.

It doesn't take a rocket science degree to know that you can't KNOW anything from a puppy - that you never know what it will turn out like and the only TRUE thing you can tell is that it has 'show potential'. How can you know anything for certain until you see what it turns into! And even knowing very little about showing when we bought her I KNEW that!!

And the number of breeders I now know who kept the 'really promising one' and sold on the 'really pet type one' and as the dogs grew up realise they got it backwards - Well......

As for Savannah, it's taken her a couple of years, and every win, or ribbon, or card we got meant the world to us and came as a total shock (because no matter how much potential she might have *I* was new to showing so could ruin it LOL). This year has started off well for her, but no matter how much we do or don't win it will all be valuable to us because it's the dog on the day no matter what anyone says.

I am in shock that anyone can 'guarantee' a champion. And further that anyone would fall for it???

Wendy