We have been asked from different sources to post the following information:

THE PETITION

The Welsh Assembly is giving capital grants to farmers, under the “Farming Connect” scheme, for the purpose of breeding puppies. This scheme includes the “Farm Enterprise Grant” under which the breeding of dogs is eligible for capital works such as kennelling and exercise yards. We believe that the provision of financial aid by the Welsh Assembly for this purpose is morally corrupt, when over 12,000 unwanted or stray dogs are destroyed every year in Britain.

It is our opinion that this scheme is effectively promoting the potential creation of puppy farms - horrific establishments where bitches are bred at every season and then discarded in the most disgusting manner when their useful lives are over. Morally outraged dog owners have been campaigning for years for these establishments to be made illegal.

The ultimate outcome of this outrageous scheme will be even greater pressure on the already beleaguered rescues and sanctuaries around the UK, most of whom do not receive any funding from either the Welsh Assembly or Central Government. Do not think that this scheme will only affect rescues and sanctuaries in Wales and that it is therefore of no consequence to those living elsewhere in the UK – because if it is deemed successful in Wales this year, then next year your Local Rural development Agency might introduce a similar scheme and your local rescue may also be additionally inundated with unwanted and potentially genetically defective dogs and puppies!

If you care at all for the well-being of dogs everywhere, large or small, young or old, pedigree or cross-breed, then we beg you to support our campaign to convince the Welsh Assembly to revoke the giving of these grants. Please sign this petition and add your voice to ours for the benefit of the hundreds of potential brood bitches and stud dogs as well as the thousands of, as yet unborn, puppies – none of who can speak for themselves.

“Mankind has forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible forever for what you have tamed" – Antoine de St. Exupery

DESIRED OUTCOME

To persuade the Welsh Assembly not to give financial grants to farmers for them to build kennels and exercise yards for the purpose of breeding puppies.

WHO WE NEED TO INFLUENCE

The Welsh Assembly
Food and Farming Development Division
Parc Cathays
Cardiff, CF10 3NQ.

HOW LONG WILL WE CAMPAIGN

Ongoing until the Welsh Assembly stop giving grants for the purpose of breeding puppies.

WHO TO CONTACT

Karen McGarrigle
All Creatures Great and Small
Church Farm
Llanfrechfa
Cwmbran
Gwent
NP44 8AD
[email]assemblycampaign@allcreaturesgreatandsmall.org.uk[/email]

[link http://www.ethical-business.com/default.asp?sect=detail&pet=619&page=4]Petition[/link]

You can also download from the same source (i.e. Karen McG at All Creatures Great and Small) a poster they've done as well as a petition that you can put signatures on so the campaign can go further. You need to be able to handle pdf files though (Adobe Acrobat):

http://www.allcreaturesgreatandsmall.org.uk/admin/assemblya4poster.PDF

http://www.allcreaturesgreatandsmall.org.uk/admin/assemblypetition.pdf

Come on people - this is sadly becoming a lost subject this weekend. Down at the bottom of page 2 on active topics. The petition has over 400 signatures now which is great start - but please lets not let this get lost. On Friday so many of you where really getting behind it and coming up with some wonderful ideas, please don't let this be forgotten by sunday.

In our area (Llandaff, Cardiff) a few of us are downloading the poster from the Campaign site which we will distribute locally - it would be wonderful if we could get Wales plastered with posters by the end of June - plus the more traditional paper petitions going - Is anyone else going to do anything like this in their areas - Or even in ours - we could perhaps share resources/ideas on how to progress on the grass roots level. Very grateful for any ideas .....

Hi Boosmum

far from being forgotten, I'm sure this will go from strength to strength. I've already added my name to the petition, and am encouraging everyone else I know to do so.

liberty :)

Boosmum. You do not need to keep bumping these threads to the top. This site is extremely busy and just because people are not posting to say they have signed the petition does not mean that they have not signed! If the amount of spam emails I am getting on this subject is anything to go by, then there will not be a dog owner out there (who has internet access) that does not know about this subject. You are infact detracting from the thread by keep bumping it. People will get bored reading it if all they find is another 'bump' ;-)

I am glad that at least one area in Wales has become active in trying to enlighten the public. In a previous message I posted info of two but in fact as well as Wag there are three other web sites campaigning against puppy farming, however I am rather saddened to find when I looked at the counters from yesterday to today that know one had bothered to check this out. Every one is prepared initially to get on the band wagon so to speak but unfortunately I have found through years of campaigning on this issue that the enthusiasm and motivation generally flounders very quickly. People who are 'all there in the beginning' however, sadly dissapear very quickly. One has to be totally committed to keep going but I do keep going and seek out information, research and campaign. Hence the reason why you are now aware of the Welsh Assembly and Farming Connect.
As I said in my previous message but it seems to have been overlooked, in Tim Cosgoves letter he points out that the two farmers already given grants were already involved in dog breeding. This is a misuse of grant money as the money was provided to Welsh farmers to diversify and go into as new enterprise. If a farmer is already breeding from dogs this is for that farmer not a new enterprise. I feel when you contact the Welsh Assembly it is important to question this. I feel however much we know about the wrongs of puppy farming and the problems that arrive from it the Welsh Assembly and the media are more likely to pay attention if it can be shown that money given by Farming Connect by way of a grant has been given inapropiately, for the two farmers concerned it was not a new venture or enterprise.

Added:

Hello,
We need supporters to demonstrate outside the Welsh Assembly (at the end of June )against their witless decision to grant aid farmers for puppy breeding. For more info contact me: [email adogslife@ntlworld.com]Moreen Davie[/email]

Why not try to get some of the horse fraternity to join you too after all the grants are for foaling stalls too. Are there not already enough horses roaming on common land only to be culled because they are unwanted, because the farmers not have the stallions - (whatever they call what they do to horses to make them infertile) sorry cannot think what they call castrated horses!

Geldings, Pat!

I think the word you want is Gelded - Unfortunately I have little knowledge of the horse world anymore but you're right - its a huge problem - apparently you can buy horses for a couple of £'s. We have a field very close by which has horses breeding on it - they die and are just left there - breaks my heart, I'm sure there are people on this list who have good contacts within the horse world who perhaps might be able to grab this and run with it.

boosmum...unfortunately the attitude of horse breeders to breeding is very very different to that of dog breeders & breeding & I dont imagine you will get much joy by asking horse breeders to petition against it!

Pat - I had noted that they were helping already established businesses. Personally I'm very willing to help in anyway that I can and I know of at least two other people who will. I'm absolutely furious about this - after years of sticking my head in the sand about this issue I can't any longer - I'm planning to go to my local AM's surgery on Friday afternoon and would be very grateful if you could supply me with as much information as possible to back up my visit ... locally we also have contacts at the BBC and HTV - both dog lovers and will also try to get them as interested as possible. If it is indeed you who sent the information to Killick I thank you - it gave me the kick up the backside I deserved.

I have every admiration for what you are doing but I am concerned that online petitions are not taken seriously is it not possible to have traditional ones running alongside. There is nothing better at the end of the day than hand written letters of protest - because they have to be replied to and acted on and sometimes recorded. This route has far more effective than the modern technolgy route of emails, although I do both, worth a thought.
It is not just the rescues that have/will had extra problems it is the unfortunate people that buy puppies from pet shops (I know we say they should not but thousands do) and the puppies that are sold from these outlets. Which reminds me if you know of any premises in your area that are 'buying in' puppies that are not on the list they can be added onto the list on this web site. http://mysite.freeserve.com/puppy_alert/index.htm it is new site, it is important to keep it active - by the way there is no www it does not need one. There is an email address on the site to use.
We all must do what we can to make the Welsh Assembly listen.

hi boosmum
me and my mum have signed the petition got to stop puppy farming
tanya

Hi...

Well, I've signed the petition...

I have also put a poster on my gate, and one on my roadside field. (on a farm in West Wales)

I wonder what my neighbours and the local farmers will think of that? (Do I care?...do I heck!!!)

Take care

Lisa

Good for you - right in the heart land too! Do you have any like minded friends locally that you can also get to put up posters - help you feel a little less isolated?

Good for you Lisa!! :)

liberty

Pat - the first message has a link in which you can download a paper petition

Pat - I'm sorry I didn't look at this site before - last Friday after reading the article in Our Dogs I was livid. On my evening walk I told a good friend and in disbelief (she has 2 rescue dogs) she said "what on earth for - to send to China ...." (meaning for the food market). It was a fatuous remark made to show her disbelief, strangely enough I've heard of another person who said the same thing. After reading that some of these dogs do indeed get sent to China I'm ashamed of the blind eyes that I've turned .... I shall not do it again.

This needs to be kept on the agenda. And what's the problem with Boosmum trying to rally people together. This is not a new problem, and these are early days in this new campaign (which is going on within a number of websites). If we don't pull together now then when would we. We have to keep the momentum up or we won't even get over the first hurdle.

You can find the name of your local MP and his email or office address at

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alms.cfm

I'm pretty sure any letter to the Welsh Assembly will have more influence if it comes from people living in Wales but this will affect people in England too, as many of the large pet shops selling pedigree puppies get them from Wales.

Lets not forget that Wales has a population the size of Greater Manchester and our BIGGEST employer is the tourist industry so everyones opinion is important to us. And trying very hard to enhance its cultural image along the way - well the supplying of dogs for food/fur to China is neither cultured or civilized. Quite disheartened this morning really - after admin saying yesterday that they thought there was probably not a dog lover on the net who was not aware of this petition. Looked this morning 530 odd signatures and to be honest I give a conservative estimate of 5 to 10% are my own breed contacts (not a big breed with many dogs) - so if everyone knows about it are there really only 480 other people who care enough to take 4 minutes out and visit the site - the same goes for the Puppywatch site too.

This thread is getting quite emotional which I understand, but having read an earlier posting it seems two people have taken advantage of these grants for kennels in the last two years, has anyone found out where they are, and asked if they could see them, are they puppy farms?.
Surely if these people get grant aid for kennels they have to be built to the highest standards and be inspected by the local authoritys before they can have a licence.
The grant is for kennels and not puppy breeding, there is a couple in the Farmers Weekly this week who have diversified into boarding kennels and what a wonderful job they have done, but it does not say if they had a grant.
So as I say a logical debate would be better than emotional one when dealing with the Welsh Office.

They are both businesses which are already breeding and are getting grants to expand .... having done research to determine that there is a demand for their product. Sounds like commercial breeding to me. I've just spent a good half hour on the telephone with a lady who has devoted the past 5 years of her life to raising awareness of this issue - it broke my heart. It is an emotional issue but I agree that it needs to be done in reasoned terms when dealing with the Assembly but it will need a lot of support. If farmers are being given grants to open boarding kennels are doing so well, I have not problem with that - it's conceivable that they are - but I don't think I've been asking for an emotional response only an active one. Local authorities are already "policing" licensed kennels and what a "vigilant" job they are doing. I've heard today of one person who has 70 breeding bitches illegally and in disgusting conditions - when trading standards visited have they closed her down - are they pushing for prosecetion (Can't Spell!!) - No - What have they done - Told her to apply for a license. In Wales - In the month of June. So no I won't trust these people to do their jobs any more. All I asking for is for perhaps a few other people - I know it'll only be a few -to perhaps get together and pool our resources. Would it be so easy for the Trading Standards to respond in such a casual manner if they had say 2 - 300 emails asking them why? I don't mind being thought niave but I'd hate to be defeatist so early in the game.

boosmum, yes, you are quite right.
Were they licensed, did they need to be licensed but were not? Werethey breeding unlicensed when in fact they should have been licensed in which case instead of being given a grant they should have been prosecuted for unlicensed breeding?

This is an extract of two of the paragraphs in a letter from Tim Cosgrove, I think you will agree this is totally unacceptable.

Of the farmers that have requested support for dog breeding facilities the first business has received the necessary planning permission and a local authority dog warden has approved the plans, advice has also been sought from specialist dog kennel constructors. They appariently conform fully with current health, enviroment and animal welfare regulations. The busines members have researched the market and have over 12 years experience of breeding dogs.
The second enterprise is to provide further support to an established dog breeder to convert calf stables into kennels and provision of steam cleaning equip ment for effective hygene management, again all building wortks are to British Standard 5502 and subject to possible inspection. This enterprise is to provide high quality puppies in a welfare friendly manner for family pets. The farmer has tested the market and established that there is a demand for the enterprise.

From this extract it is very clear to me that the dog warden (if this farmer was not a hobby breeder up to 1999 if more than 2 breeding bitches and he would have needed a dog breeders licence, now more than 4 litters in ayear) this farmer was breeding dogs for 12 years,according to the letter. Did any inspections take place during these 12 years to determine the farmers status? With 12 years experience in breeding dogs is not a new enterprise for the farmer he has been active for 12 years this is not diversification.

The second enterprise is to offer support to an ESTABLISHED dog breeder, who wishes to convert calf stables, have these been used for the dog breeding activities ( I can assume they have) the farmer has tested the market! I bet he has like the hundreds of others of the puppy farming fraternity selling to dealers and pet shops. How else has he/she established that there is a market and a re demand for such an enterprise.
Makes me so cross too that the Welsh Aseembly and farming Connect have come up with such a stupid scheme that is so detrimental to animal welfare. Neither of thes cases meet the criteria of the scheme either. There are already so many licensed premises ands unlicensed premises operating in Wales breeeding puppies for the pet market we certainly do not need more in fact we need the existing ones supplying the pet shops and exporting closed down. No puppy should be sold from a pet shop or be exported through a third person to destination unknown. it is deplorable.

The reason why they do not prosecute for unlicenced breeding (seems more noticable in wales than in England, although I have known the same to apply in England) is because of cost and the human rights act, believe it or not. There excuse for giving a licence and not prosecute is because they say they can inspect the premises but as S W and West wales is over run with dog breeders supplying the pet trade in London and the South east the Dog Wardens have such a massive patch to cover and so many premises to check - the ones they know of that is, that they invariable do not get around to each once a year as they should. One dog warden to cover the whole of Carmarthen for example. I believe just one in Ceridigion. Two of the most 'active' areas interms of dog breeding or puppy farming.

Everyones enthusiasm is dwindling it seems, what did I say, everyone is keen at first then it all fades away into nothing but the suffering continues. This should not be.

Pat - that's not strictly true, today I've been catching up with other parts of my life which had to be dealt with, same tomorrow. I have a list of things which I have planned to do on Wednesday, getting in contact with all the Vets Practices in Cardiff, asking them if they'll display posters and petitions, people to telephone, letters to write. I don't need to justify myself further because I know my intentions, I know of another topic member who has been active throughout the day. But if I have to be honest - do I think that Champdog is perhaps the best board for this - No. I said in an earlier post that if anyone wanted copies of the article to email - left my email address - not one contact. I also asked if any other areas in Wales where going to petition/act locally - nothing. One lady in West Wales has bravely put up posters, but so far that's it. As admin said themselves, people get bored so I'm not going to flog this dead horse.

Hi Boosmum

You're doing a great job, so don't give up on this one. I'm also telling everyone I can to get them to sign the petition. Someone suggested trying to contact Carla Lane or another high profiile animal activist, lets face it, it if it wasn't for CD'S I for one wouldn't know anything about this. Don't get dis-heartened after all your hard work :)

liberty

I think people are more concerned than you think. I have been stopped by people who either see me with my dogs or know I have dogs and they are asking me about TV reports they have seen. My local pet shop has posters and that is a long way from Wales. The word is getting out one way or another. Have any of you contacted the dog press/KC and found out what they intend doing about it yet? Personally, I think the Welsh Assembly are more likely to listen to pressure from within Wales than from people hundreds of miles away, but we can but try.

boosemum, I am sorry, so sorry if you thought that I was refering to you personally, that was certainly not the case. Honesly, I was just speaking in general. I know from past experience that when something is 'hot off the press' lots of people rally round with 'I will do this and that' and a few days later, if one lucky, weeks, a few but invariably just one or two if you are lucky remain. One has to be very committed to cope with the frustrations, dissapointment and heartache too.
For years and years I have been interestedly involved in this issue and active in pursuing Councils, Government officials and animal welfare organisations. It is not easy but one needs to have them on the same side to get any changes made.
I can see that you have been very busy but there really is no need to feel you have to justify your actions to me or anyone else I would not have thought. We all get very busy me included and at times I do wonder whether it is worth it but I know when I look into those saddened eyes of a dog I know why do it.
I accept that perhaps champdogs is not the best place to pursue this issue but as interest was shown I thought it worth to pursue that interest. After all if every member on this board took the time if they felt inclined to write one letter, it could make so much difference to all the breeding bitches and puppies caught up in this fiasco created by the Welsh Assembly offering grants to farmers to build kennels ect, enabling them to go into dog breeding. This is after all a site devoted to dogs just becuase all dogs are not show dogs is not a valid enough reason to turn a blind eye to the plight of others surely.

Pat - Sorry! It was at the end of a hot and tiring day, desparately trying to get 101 things finished so that I could visit with my breeder today - an ethical, wonderful one who is held the world over as a guardian of his breed. My dog has been nagging at me with imagined neglect and perhaps I also felt a little guilty for making other priorities, it was late at night and I'd yet to have anything to eat - I shouldn't be so sensitive! Work in the morning and in the afternoon I shall start on my long list of "To Do's" I promise!

The Assembly hosts an All Party Animal Welfare Group, controlled by the RSPCA, no objection has been raised by either this venerable charity nor the chairperson, an Assembly AM to the introduction of grant aid to farmers. When asked for our comments, we suggested the media contact the APAWG' chairperson for an opinion. We were so disgusted with her negative reaction that we are now e-mailing her as we believe that her resignation should be tendered. Please contact Lorraine Barrett AM Chairperson of the APAWG at the assembly and ask why she and the RSPCA have not countered the introduction of such a scheme.

When I research and found out about this 15. 04. 2003 I wrote 17 letters to various people and organisations, I have received four responses, one from Tim Cosgrove a standard letter same as everyone else received, the NCDL, Clarrissa Baldwin, who received the same standard letter, Helen Mary Jones, Assembly Member, Mid and West Wales,who said my letter was passed onto Rhondri Thomas the Plaid Cymru Spokesperson. Peter Black AM, South Wales West, Welsh Liberal Democrat, wrote on my behalf after receipt of my letter to Mr Carwyn Jones AM Minister of Environment and Countryside at the National Assembly for Wales, this letter was dated 14th May - I am still waiting, have heard nothing more from these individuals or the others I wrote to. I also wrote to the Chairperson and Secretary of the All Party Animal Welfare Group, neither have had the courtesy to acknowledge the receipt of my correspondence, although in a telephone conversation with the RSPCA secretary I was advised to write in which I did in the hope that this could, as it should be, placed on the next agenda. To date none of the other 13 have replied nor the RSPCA.

For those who need the address details of Lorraine Barret (re: All Party Working Group on Animal Welfare):

Mrs Lorraine Barrett AM
Member for Cardiff South and Penarth
National Assembly for Wales
Cardiff Bay
CARDIFF
CF99 1NA

Tel: (029) 2089 8376 Fax: (029) 2089 8377
16 Grove Place
PENARTH
CF64 2 ND

Lorraine.Barrett@wales.gov.uk

Please help us in our campaign to reduce advertising by illegal breeders and dealers. We already have two of the largest newspaper groups behind us revising their pet advertising policies plus Friday Ads. In one area alone a whole column of pets for sale has been reduced to one advert. The Adtrader is the worst offender by advertising pups at six weeks, and covering the customer's telephone number by an answering machine. This paper is owned by The Guardian. We also have 300 posters around the UK in public places. If you would like to help contact adogslife@ntlworld.com
As for Trading Standards, in January this year we wrote to five councils with all our back up evidence of illegal trading but not one council has responded or taken action. In the Vale of Glam. one breeder boasts that we cannot touch her as she has friends in high places. In Cardiff we have evidence of a disgusting unlicensed puppy farmer operating for the past twelve months which Cardiff C.C. now want to license as it is an easy option and causes them no grief. Please help.

Time Cosgrove's standard e-mail refers to British Standard 5502 which is subject to POSSIBLE INSPECTION.
This particular BS relates to Building and Structures for agricultural design and construction and use of storage tanks and reception pits for slurry. However, I am more interested in where the demand for such an enterprise as dog breeding may be. As Lord Whitty announced last year in the House of Commons that DEFRA is allocating £15m over the next three years for the training of and research by veterinarians it seems coincidental that excess puppy breeding should now be on the agenda. Horses have also been mentioned - between 10,000-12,000 thousand horses are slaughtered each year in this country for the food chain abroad . The Assembly has closed ranks as, from what I hear, neither e-mails nor letters are responded to. The S.W. Echo is being pressured to cover this story as only the Argus, up to now , has touched on this subject.

Admin - I put a notice on our electronic notice board in work this morning, giving the link for people to sign the petition. But many have said that it cannot be accessed - they are just getting the standard message 'the URL cannot be retrieved'.
Is there another link I could give ? I don't want them to give up trying.

Thanks

Joyce

I have contacted the people who put up the electronic petition to tell them. This is their email if you have any other queries:

assemblycampaign@allcreaturesgreatandsmall.org.uk

Its also possible we could have crashed the server (all creatures greatand small think this is the case and can't get in touch with them any other way), so may be we have to tell people to be patient and just keep trying!

I think you are right. It looks like the server has crash. Try again later ;-)

Hi,

I received a note from Carwyn Jones' office saying they would reply within 14 days but that's it so far. I replied asking how many puppies would die in Welsh puppy farms in the intervening period. Will post reply if I get one and if it's any different to previously posted replies. Have also forwarded the petition information posted by Admin on 14/6 via email to dog-loving friends.

I guess the server crash means they are getting lots of sign-ups? Hopefully!

Jude

The impression I get on this is they have a standard 14 day email which they're send to everyone.

Be well assured this subject will be neither forgotton nor dropped. The word is only just spreading in the Pembroke area but genuine animal carers are up in arms as the problems they face are far worse than in the South. Judging by the last e-mail from the Chairperson of the APAWG pressure in being put on her by all our contacts and she is now going to talk to the First Minister. We are querying why no objection was raised by her at the first hint of the Ass. decision to implement such a scheme. We are also concerned why the media has not followed this story as they are only too willing to target the Assembly. It may seem that all will quieten down over the next few months but work is continuing.

Online petition is up and running again