Hi there everyone. first time posting but I have been reading for a while and you guys all seem to have such good advice, so I thought I'd ask for some help from you guys.

My problem is this, I have a GSD x collie called Riot who has just turned a year old and been spayed. She was the runt of the litter and quite shy, I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. The first week I had her, I had terrible problems with her mouthing and acutally considered returning her to the breeder. I persevered however, but she has always been a very pushy dog. The strange thing is she was frightened of everything, and still has a degree of fear. Only now instead of backing away, she is challenging things. The last straw was when she ran after a woman and started jumping up at her and nipping her. I can't deny this is actual agression now so I took her to see the vet for some advice. He reccommended having her spayed, as she was due in season and her fluctuating hormones could've been contributing to the problem. He also advised seeing a behaviourist and gave me some preliminary advice about how to deal with her in the short term. I've come here today for more of that, if anyone has any suggestions. She is almost healed from her spay so she will be seeing the behaviourist in the near future now.

The actual agression only began about 6 weeks ago, the first incident was when she tried to attack my best friend coming to the house which I put down to territorial agression, shortly after she was microchipped and overreacted. I am wondering if either of thse two things have sparked off this behaviour. I believe it has something to do with dominanace aggression as she can be fiercely protective of items she has stolen and tries to dominate in the house. One of the duties of the alpha dog is to protect the pack and I am convinced this is what she is doing. I have implemented the ground rules of letting me through the door first, no up on couches or beds without asking, etc more strictly but she is getting worse. I know they sometimes do this as they don't like their status being taken away but I am at my wits end with her. She is a very loving dog and a star worker, doing obediance and tracking work but this attitude leaves alot to be desidered. Any advice very welcome. Thanks.

Hello,

You have a cross there of two very reactive dogs, both prone to being very sensitive as well as bold. GSD's do have a habit of mouthing and obviously have a guarding instinct. The collie (I assume Border) will have a nipping tendancy and also some BC's do have a habit of being snappy.

You said that your vet suggested spaying her because she was due in season. I hope he didn't spay her at this stage, because her hormones would be all over the place and unfortunately this would be the wrong time and could therefore lead to behaviour problems. The best time to spay if roughly 13 weeks after their season, this has given the hormones time to settle down again the bitch back to normal.

I think you are seeing nervous aggression, dogs have two instincts to deal with things they are frightened of, fight or flight. Yours has unfortunately chosen the fight option.

Have you had any other problems with socialising, how much did you do with her as GSD's and collies need a lot?

Your behaviourist should be able to give you some advise regarding the above, but it will take time and patience to sort the problem and you may only ever be able to control it and not solve it completely.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

manda

Hi
I have a collie GSD cross. Mine is a small collie sized black and tan version.

I suspect that your dog is not at all a dominant dog. In fact, she seems to me from what you say, to be very very nervous, and insecure.
If she has found that snapping or biting/growling at the things that scare her work, in that the offending person backs off, then she will do it again.
If she is being put in the position where she feels she HAS to take the dominant dog role, then she will feel under even more pressure, which for an underconfident, nervy dog, will make things far worse.

You need to watch how your dog behaves a lot. If she truly was a dominant dog, then you would not get any sense of her being nervy or scared. Check out her body language, does it seem confident? I suspect not.

What you will need to do, is to make sure she understands that YOU are the boss. I dont mean in a harsh way, you make the decisions, and you will protect her, and not the other way round.
Give her another option other than fighting, snapping, etc, ie, teach her to hide behind you if something is scary. Dont push her into situations you know will frighten her. When you have worked out all the things/situations that scare her, then you can work on improving her confidence more.

You really need to limit the times when she will be scared, and keep good control of her, as the more times she has to resort to using her teeth, the harder it will be to persuade her that she doesnt need to.

Good luck,
Emma

i agree that from what you have told us your dog is not dominant but simply reacting to her environment. Be very careful not to read too much into her each and every action.

Some time ago i was a student on several courses, one run by the late John Fisher who used to advocate the dominance reduction programme which often had success. However after research with his students on his next course, he started to discover that many dogs reacted badly and with depression, or basically trying to get more attention, etc. when on the DRP. Lots of people who were the movers and shakers in the behavioural world a decade ago have moved on - for instance the monks of New Skete dont avocate alpha rolls any more. I would suggest that although many dogs and GSds in particular do respond well to the old DRP, it really is not always the answer and can - not always, but sometimes - make things worse.

Make sure that the behaviourist you use is very up to date and understands the latest advances in dog behaviour, and be careful if they just recommend a DRP ..... many owners (muyself included) use a toned down version of that on occasion which can be helpful, for example i will ignore my dog if she "pesters" me too much, (she is very sociable LOL) but i will also call her to me and give her lots of fun and love on my terms, so that we have a good relationship. With her it is fine to let her call the shots in a sociable way, but just not too much or she will take advantage. What i am trying to say is that at the end of the day it is the whole relationship which is important and looking at this can help, i do hope the behavourist will be able to help you.

Good luck :)

Lindsay I totally agree with your view of the DRP and the application of de-dominance rules. I was talking to my sister [a zoologist and animal keeper] about making sure our dog understood his pack position and the various things we were doing to ensure this [all the usual things recommended by trainers and John Fisher such as going through doors first, making no go areas in the house. etc.]
She just said "for god's sake he's a Corgi not a Rottweiler, think about his inherent temperament before you strictly apply these rules".
So while he is not a perfectly obedient dog and wees all over the place on his walks, he does not generally exhibit signs of dominance. I think if we had been too strict and followed every rule to the letter [e.g. insisting we eat first etc] we could have ended up with a depressed and confused dog. So we are lenient on some matters and firm on others and this seems to have worked out fine. The only rule that is strictly enforced is the no-sofa rule but that is mainly to protect his long back from future injuries.
regards
cissy

I think that being lenient on some matters and firm on others is soooo sensible Cissy - all dogs need to know what is what, but it's so easy to overdo it :)

As far as i know, many people decided on the DRP because it was a sensible way of "sorting" a dog without having to be physical, and seemed to make a lot of sense .... there's still a lot of discussion about it and lots of people on different sides of the fence as well as on top of it :D

I did admire John Fisher a lot because he wasn't afraid to change his mind or to be flexible, and i think it takes a lot for a person to almost do a U turn, so I would still recommend his books etc especially his "Why does my dog?" I feel it is a great shame he died of a brain tumour because he was a great loss to the dog world - and not least for his wicked sense of humour ;)

Lindsay

I like that John Fisher book too and I often consult it.
I think what led me to really question the rules was the time I came home after a short absence to my puppy and he merely came to say hello - not boisterously or anything and I ignored him for about 2 minutes chatting to husband first. He then padded off with a hanging head and I realised that there had been no need to do what I did and I had been taking the rules all too literally - the look on his face haunted me for ages. I have never done that again!. I am now very keen to make sure I am applying the principles in our specific context.
Sorry to original poster - I know this thread is about bitches and I am talking about a dog...

It would seem that NILIF is a modified version of this, with rewards for the correct behaviour.

Hi Allie,
I have a 2 year old ESS who has similar problems, she has been spayed but this has made little difference in her case, it is very much nervous aggression and like yours she usually chooses to fight.
We saw a behaviourist when she was 9 months who gave us some good advice but I have to say with her its been more a case of persevering and patience, she is alot better but not cured and I still worry alot about her when we are out but I have seen a big improvement in her as she has got older she appears alot more relaxed around things that usually frightened her.We have had to spend alot more time on her than our other dogs and teach her that not all things are bad but she is a lovely dog and seing her when she responds to our commands make it all worth the effort.
Good luck with Riot.

Hi Allie

Your dog is at that adolescent age when they can become a real handful if they are not taken in hand.
You need to show her that you are in control of how she behaves which it's obvious from your post that you realise :)
Microchipping can be painful so I don't blame her for a negative reaction in that instance.
The first steps of asserting your position is to act like you are in charge. Stand tall and be confident where she is concerned. Don't walk round her if you are going from room to room etc... she must move out of your way. Initially I will move my dogs out of my way even if they are lying down. Keep your voice level and low.
Importantly, spend time paying particular attention to the down and stay. Eventually when people are around you should be able to put her in the down and she remains there until you tell her she can get up.
It may help to invest in a dog gate if you don't already have one - when people come to the house she can be restrained behind one initially so there is no fear of an attack. Alternatively, keep her out of the way.
You can also restrict her access around the house using them so that she doesn't feel that she owns the place if she does not have the full run all the time.
I agree that you go through the doors first etc.. although couches and beds are definate no go areas for my dogs :)
for the simple reason that it is good manners. Dogs that crowd and barge when you are trying to enter a doorway can be in danger of knocking someone over or hurting them - or even escaping.
Keep her on the lead if you see strangers about and start to take her out to loads of places where there are lots of people about so that she can get used to strangers being around. Don't pay her or them any attention. If she is going to start to aggress then approach it slowly. Keep her out of their range where she has a 'safe distance' of not being bothered by them and the gradually get closer and closer.
Initially I always make sure that strangers always pass on the handler side of my dog, even if it means I have to cross the path. That way if he has an aggressive reaction then he will have to come across me. It's a stronger position for me and gives me the option of raising my knee - not to kick him with :D but to block his lunge and protect the stranger. This way I can get very close safely. After a while they are not so interesting.
Get out and about as much as possible with her. She needs loads and loads of socialising.
Good luck :)
Lara x

If you take her to busy places where she is unlikely to be the focus of attention, seeing lots of people, who don't bother or approach her is far less stressful than one person approaching.

When she decides that people at a distance passing by aren't aproblem, then you cna engage people in conversation in shopping precinct etc, asking them to ignore her.

A time will come when she will want to get involved and not be left out. As you are talking to the person and relaxed, she will come to see them as no threat. You can build up to letting the person offer her a tit bit, and she choose to take it or not, no presssure. Slowly slowly catchee monkey.

Hi guys. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply but I have recently changed jobs and been working with Riot a bit more.

First off thank you all for your suggestions, it is very much appreciated. Your guess that she is nervous/fear aggressive was one that I thought of initially but she was getting aggressive with us in the home, over nothing inparticular. Sometimes she would take it into her head that nipping people was alot of fun and when told off, it would turn into full blown aggression, growling, snapping, etc. We have found the best way to deal with this is by ignoring her. We shut her out until she calms down. However, just as we seem to have resolved one issue another problem arises, now she is intent on stealing things off coffee tables, but apparently only does it when I am in the house. When my parents dog-sit, she is well-beahved for the most part and never goes near the coffee table, yet the minute I get home she wants to start the nipping and stealing.

On a more positive note, she IS becoming less reactive to strangers. I have been forced to muzzle her in public on occasions. If I know we will need to walk past people or when she is off the lead then she is muzzled. I don't like to do it but I would rather have a muzzled dog than a dead one who was ordered to be destroyed for biting someone. I walk her to the parks and forests around me that are quiet, when we are off the streets she goes onto a long lead and when we are far enough into the area she gets let off. I think some one asked how much exercise she got a day - at least 3 half hour walks a day but it normally more like a half hour walk in the morning, about 1-2hours in the afternoon and 45mins in the evening. Anyway, most of the time I can walk her past people (on my side as some one said, I've always done that with her) without her reacting. If I see them coming and can get her "set up" for them to pass she will either just look or will stay focused on me. If it is a jogger or cyclist I need her to sit or she will lunge but she will sit quietly and let them pass. As long as the people we are walking past are quiet and reasonably slow we have no problem. Riot seems to have erected a boundary around herself, so that is people get closer than 3 feet to her then she will react. However, the strange thing I forgot to mention is that when she is with other dogs she will not react in the slightest to the dogs owner, to a bike or to anyone who walks past us. She may go up for a sniff but there is no hint of agression at all. Also, if we are walking past some one and she isn't close into me, walking to heel then she will attempt to chase them. I have been able to hold a conversation with some one standing about 2 feet away from me without a reaction but the minute they moved she was hysterical again.

I am open to the possiblity that it is indeed fearful agression as it seems like when either I or another dog is in control (walking to heel/following another dog) she is OK but off the lead she will literally fly for people, or if some one suddenly walks past and she gets a fright. However, her behaviour in the house suggests she is a dominant dog. Perhaps she is confident enough to do that indoors but the big wide world is till too scary?

Anyway, I thought I would just update you all and say thanks for all ypur suggestions. They have been a great help to us both.