Hi everyone.

I would really like some advice please. I am currently doing a home study course with the Animal Care College. I have been asked to give my views on breeding from a dog with a bad mouth. Now my personal view is that this should not be done as a bad mouth is quite a large fault. I have been told that if you breed a dog with a good mouth to a dog with a bad mouth that you will have a litter that contains a percentage of pups with mouths like the Sire, a percentage with mouths like the Dam and a percentage with a combination of both? And a book I have read says you will get some taht have the Dams mouth and some that have the Sires mouth and nothing in between. I am finding it very difficult to get any kind of information on this and I don't know anybody who has the knowledge to help me out.

Thank you in advance.

C

In my opinion dogs with bad mouths should not be bred from at all unless they are otherwise absolutely outstanding in every other aspect. Bad mouths are a very difficult fault to breed out once they have crept in, because the problem will skip generations and reappear down the line.

Hi Guest,

Not sure where you would find hard evidence as generally breeding with faults is discouraged and those who I imagine that do it won't "publish" their results.

I don't think you can really say you will get this from this , at the end of the day if the fault is there in the dog and it is them used for mating it is then in the line and as most would say it will " rear it's head when you least expect it" I know of people who have had whole litters with bad bites but both parents were fine. This is obviously further back whether grandparents or even further.

I have blond/redish hair, non of my parents do nor grandparents, but my great grand father did have. :-)

Pam

if you breed from affect and an none affect dog,50 % of the litter will be carries,but you may not know what one are the carries,beacuse there no genes test at the moment to find a mouth problam.in my first litter i had 1 bad mouth,luckly he a pet,both parents mouths are good,but both had to carrie the gene for him to get,but then it depends on the problam,it could be eviroment,like a knock or hit to the mouth,or a growth plate stop growing,ect,all dogs have a fault,so if it just 1 fault it may ride over the all the good ones.

Hi guys,

Bites is something I am interested in , as it is critical in terriers or at least one of the critical points.

When you say that:

>>>>if you breed from affect and an none affect dog, 50 % of the litter will be carries,but you may not know what one are the carries,beacuse there no genes test at the moment to find a mouth problam.<<<<

What happens if the one unaffected dog or at least visually unaffected has a father with a bad bite or a grandfather with a bad bite surely this means you cannot put a % on it at all.

Also why can all the litter then be carriers I thought if a major fault of any kind appeared it was implied that it is best not to breed from any of the litter brother or sisters.

I do not have experience in genes but I thought a fault could basically can thrown up at anytime. Maybe someone else will know. Certainly fasinating..

Regards Pam.

both SIRE AND DAM have to carry aTt to produce a mouth problam,the rest of the litter be carries,or you could one that carries Tt to TT and not get the problam,both got to carry the genie to get the problam,that what i was told bye a top dental speclists,so if both have good bite for the breed,and are mated you will not know if there a problem untill around 12 to 6 months old.in the method you should not breed from siblings,but how do you know that they are or are not carring the problam untill thy gone to a breeding progam and it may not turn out if the other half is not carring the genes.

Hmmm . Interesting.

I remember I was at my very first champshow and the judge said to me very enthusiastically that my bitch had a wonderful bite.

I never thought that much of it but then started to read all the reviews from the shows and noticed in one breed article the judge had

actually wrote, "a lot of poor bites".

I guess it is trying to iliminate a fault once it gets in to lines that can be hard.

Touch wood mine have correct bites. :-)

Pam

To class all incorrect mouths as bad bites is not correctly true.

I consulted Mr Johnstone, several years ago at his practice in Edinburgh with regard to bites. He has studied canine dentistry etc. in the US and is this countries leading expert in the subject.

Not all bites are hereditary. He explained to me that a dog's teeth don't actually "set" in it's jaw until it is 15 months old and he says it is surprising that more dogs don't have "bad" mouths from all the bumps, knocks etc they receive as puppies.

Yes, some are hereditary faults but not all are. If it isn't in the line, can you be sure it's hereditary?

True Lily Munster,

That is another way to look at it, I know a girl who has a lovely dog with a " problem mouth bite " whatever we are calling it.

She was convinced it was breeding until a vet said to her the type of error or problem, fault was probably caused by a knock.

What is the difference between a incorrect mouth and a bad bite, or what do you mean? my comments are really based on over or undershot as this is really all I have read about and really generalising not zoning in on anything in particular was just interested in the whole subject. :-)

BFN Pam

Pam, Wasn't aimed at you, my reply..just as a general comment on the whole thread! :D

Hi Lily,

I wasn't thinking that anyway :-) Lil, LOL was just worried I had used inapropriate wording... :-)

I keep comparing how things just appear in us as humans and still think that % wise it is a fluke but as I say not got any scientific knowledge in the area at all I can't argue.

I do notice faults are not discussed a lot though.

BFN Pam

i agree with you that fault are not discussed alot,the top breeders will keep in quite while the novice get the problam and donot know were to turn,to salt it out.i stood up at a semiar about this subject,we all should work together as a breed to salt out than problem that rise and not to keep it quite,it the novice one that get the flak.and it the owner or novice breeder that keep;s the one with problem and untill then end of the dogs life where the big breeders do sale the dog on and place their stock, again.

he a great kind man with dogs,and know his stuff.

Hello C,

I would definately say don't breed from a bad mouth. This is usually hereditary and will only continue the problem down the line. The only time I would say yes, but with care, would be if there was a very small amount of that breed in the country and they were in danger of dying out, then maybe risk it, but be very careful with the background breeding.

I also strongly disagree with breeding from dogs with bad hips/eyes/elbows etc and definately from non-entire dogs!!!

Manda
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