Attending with a friend on the possible purchase of a new pup for her family, we were disgusted at what we were presented with. This pup had supposedly KC registered parents both of which we asked to see. The pup's ancestry was suspect to say the least. The house was FULL of dogs - so I ask myself, how many were indeed registered and WHICH were the parents!! Although some evidence of pegigree was produced nothing rang true! Just what tabs do the KC keep on this 'breeding' - obviously not enough!

The pups environment was far from clean and he was clearly not the most socialised dog on the block.

I thought the KC limited the number of times a bitch may be bred. How many people buy a pup thinking the pup is registerable having been presented with pedigrees of parents and find they are unable to do so?

Having just posted this message I read through the 'general' section and the messages contained. I am not a breeder and know very little about 'affix' 'kenmil' etc but it appears that when buying a pup one must be extremely cautious of the 'breeder' (reputable or not!). How on earth is one to know the pup is a product of the parents presented, and indeed these parents are the true owners of the pedigrees? As purchasers, how can we be sure that tucked away at the rear of the house aren't many other un-registered 'parents' who are presented 'as kc pedigrees' to purchasers with a copy of that same pedigree when their pups are presented for sale?

Forgive me if I put too much store on the kennel club, but it appears I mistakenly believed that aspects of breeding were checked i.e. the no. of times a bitch produced, the stud used etc. before registration of the pups could take place. Do I need enlightening on this? I feel very disillusioned and don't quite know who to trust.

Hi, yes buying a puppy is a minefield! The only thing I can suggest is to buy through the breed's breed club members, by contacting the secretaries and ask about puppies available/expected. There will be some breed club members that dont come up to scratch, but as a rule its the "safe" way to go

When you arrived at the premesis you described it was obvious to you that things were not right, so you just have to go "on to the next" and hope things are better there. I think it is important to have a correct KC reg, even if you dont want to show.
As far as the rules are concerned, if a breeder registers more than 4 litters a year they need to have a local authority inspection and licence, and may not register puppies from each bitch more often than every 12 months. Bitches must be over 12 months of age when mated, may not whelp after their 8th birthday. Those that breed less than 5 litters a year have to follow the same rules but if by chance the bitch whelps, has another season and then comes in season again say 11 months after the previous litter was born (not unusual in small breeds) you can apply for dispensation, as long as it is done v. quickly, pref before she is mated. If the KC agree (this application must be suported by a letter from the breeders vet to say the bitch is fit and well and suitable to be mated) then you can breed that litter even if it will be born a week or two within 12 months of the last litter.
Its always preferable to buy from a smaller breeder.

I bought from a small breeder and have been so thrilled with our pup and with the support they are still giving us when we need it:) I have a bit more to add on the thought of choosing a pup and a breeder. If the breeder is not as interested in finding out about you as you are about them then DON'T get a pup from them. I happily spent an hour on the phone with our breeder (as well as sending emails back and forth) telling her about ourselves, and our experience, and finding out about them and their dogs. It was EXTREMELY important to me that they were happy with us - I was more than willing to send references or whatever else might have been required. The more concerned the breeder is with where their pup is going (aside from the extreme of wanting continued control of a dog) then the happier I would be to buy from them - it's obvious that they care about the welfare of the pup long after they have finished their part in its life.

I would just like to add, from a breeder's perspective :

I am a small hobby breeder of Pekingese, I have 9 dogs of which 3 are breeding bitches, 3 are breeding males and the others have been neutered/spayed. As a responsible breeder, I am fully aware of which male has mated with which bitch as they are kept together alone for the entire 'season' and I dare say that most breeders either operate in this manner or actually put the 2 together to ensure mating.

With currently having 3 litters of puppies,(all KC registered) my house is also a mess and smells of puppies and I dare say most breeders houses are the same if the puppies are reared in the house - this does not mean to say that the puppies pedigrees and rearing is to be questioned, in fact all my puppies are much loved, very sociable and my home is theirs as much as it is ours. We try to keep our home clean but as usual with puppies - they have accidents, any perspective buyers of my puppies will see that although my house is a tip and a bit smelly - the puppies are reared in a sociable homely environment and are indeed a member of our family as they will be a member of theirs.

I do 'vet' perspective new owners - as should all breeders, I also spend many an hour on the phone with the new owners and will do so throughout the life of the puppy, giving advice etc. I also recommend to new owners that they should have the puppy inspected by a vet as soon as possible to put their minds to rest - if they are not happy with the outcome - I would take the puppy back.

Breeders should only mate bitches once every 12 months, but I know that some people let their bitches have litters every season - the KC will not register these litters ! they are very strict with that. I have a very small bitch (good pedigree) - she was given to me as she could no longer be cared for, she is 3 years old and has had 4 litters of pups at the previous owners - she is too small to have had puppies, it is a wonder they and she lived, she was really poorly as you can imagine. She has now been spayed and is looking very well indeed but it goes to show that not everyone is responsible breeders / owners.

If anyone buying a puppy is not happy with the current environment of the puppy and has any doubts at all about the pedigree or breeding standards - go elsewhere. Follow your instincts about the breeder but please do not let an untidy, bit smelly environment give you the wrong impression of them - dogs are dogs, carpets get stained, things get chewed - you should worry about an imaculate surrounding as this may tell you that your new puppy may not be well socialised

Donna