Just doing abit of swatting up on in breeding, and line breeding.
Please don't say do a search cos I have!
I have found everything i need to know except one thing. Grandfather/grandaughter mating I can't seem to find if this is acceptable or not Well I know in some cases it would be, but is this close mating classed as close inbreeding.
The thing is on say a five gen pedigree this mating would show seven names twice, now that wouldn't have concerned me but now I've done a bit of reading up, i don't know if it's accecptable. Like I said it is just that one mating that I want clarifying.

All opinions much appreciated, thanks in advance
Alison

Ive got huge amounts of info here on the effects of inbreeding on the immune system and litter size. Personally, and having taken the research Ive done on board, I would class this as a perfectly acceptable mating if the mating that produced your bitch was an outcross. I would be slightly more wary if the bitch was produced from a closer mating (ie her mum and dad being related more closely than usual) or if any of the breed relevant health checks produced less than better than average results. It can be a fantastic way to fix in really good points, but even if you know your lines well, it can produce the odd Trojan horse if that factor is latent in the breeding. I did it a few generations ago with a fair amount of confidence, thinking that I knew the line well, as Id bred several generations of it, and both dogs were my own breeding. The resulting dog puppy (a generation down from this mating) which I kept for stud is an absolute cracker, but is now retired from stud as Ive managed to trace my new problem back to him. Ive got kinked tails in the line. It causes no harm to the pups at all, but its INFURIATING! He doesnt show it, as far as I know (although I now know Im wrong) doesnt carry it from anywhere as Ive never had one in over 13 years, but here it is. His daughter didnt have it but all his progeny are regularly throwing one kink in each litter, no matter what lines they are put to. He was put to a variety of bitches of different breeding, yet it crops up in all of them! All my research suggests that this is carried by the bitches, not the dogs, so it probably came from his mother and appeared as a double recessive from that close breeding, but its scary how its still appearing (and I might add increasingly frequently) three generations on. If you are happy about the line otherwise and all health checks are good, then I would do it. I think Ive just been unlucky! Still, thats the joys of dog breeding. Now if anyone fancies designing a puppy tail iron, I would be thrilled to hear from them!

It is a fairly common mating amongst knowledgeable line breeders and one much favoured by many. I think though you need to consider how closely they are related otherwise.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

So basically then, if you are experienced enough and know the lines well enough, then there's no real reason not to?

Thanks for the info.
Ps will not be breeding for a good few years, just thought i'd get a head start on learning what there is to know.

Alison:)

One word of warning on this mating from one who's done it - be careful. I followed the advice of my bitches breeder for my first litter which was a grandfather x granddaughter mating, the litter was large and healthy but 3 yrs down the line one of the bitch puppies has developed epilepsy. I would do a similar mating but not until I had personally been within a breed longer some things were kept from me until AFTER the puppies were born which came as a shock ie check that the male puppy has 2 teste's coz as he's getting older the sire is producing monorchid and cryptorchids!

4 Years down the line I am more experienced and have spoken with many more breeders who have even more experience too and am in a far better position to way up the odds for and against a mating than I was in the begining, we're also lucky in that Geoff Sampson's late wife was a fellow breeder and between his knowledge of genetics and his mother in laws knowledge of schip bloodlines we have a wealth of information to help us.

Sorry if this is sounds daft question, but what is ( monorchids and cryptorchids )?

Alison

Hi Alison, monorchids have one descended testicle, cryptorchids have none descended. Bad news breeding-wise! :)

Thanks Jeanjenie
I was quite puzzled
Alison

Strictly speaking cryptorchidism is when one or both testicles fail to descend into the scrotum, so will be described as retained. Monorchidism is when one testicle is totally missing. However the words tend to be mixed up and a dog described as a monorchid is probably really a cryptorchid as real monorchidism is rare. A dog with two retained testcles is described as a bi-lateral cryptorchid.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth