Hi,

Last night our 6 month old beagle was playing with an empty coke bottle quite happily when he spotted toilet tissue and grabbed it and ran off with it. I caught him and used some advice i recieved from somebody else to get objects out of dogs mouths who wont open their jaws. I put my finger right to the back of his gums where there is no teeth and pushed my finger in between the spaces. I have done this before with no reaction, but last night he bit me and i reacted, then he reacted in an aggresive manner. I had the dog in a position that he couldnt get me and i picked him up and put him in his cage whilst shouthing at him. He continued to snap and snarl at me. until i closed the door and my hands were out of reach. i then walked out the room but i could hear him pine to get out.
I went back 20 minutes later to let him out and he was trying to jump up at me to play.
I then asked him to sit whilst i examined his teeth and gums just to make sure he wouldnt do it again and he was fine.
I then put him back in his cage for the night and after a lot of crying and barking to get out he settled and went to sleep. He was as good as gold this morning and looked as if he knew he had done wrong. When i phoned home a little while ago my wife also said he has been good. He hasnt shown any aggresive behaviour before, he has tried it on and got put right back in his place but never anything like this. he has an excelent pedigree and loves people but this shocked me. Was what i done in the first place the wrong thing to do by tring to get an object out his mouth by force and he just reacted, then with all the shouting he continued to react. I feel terible that i reacted like that, the bite didnt break skin but but it was still sore.

Any advice would be welcomed.

David

It sounds as if he's trying it on a bit and trying to assert his authority over you.

Hopefully someone else will be able to offer you some advice on how to deal with it if it happens again.

Fiona
x x x

At 6 months he may well be teething still, getting molars through at the back, so his mouth could be sore, which is a possible reason for his OTT reaction. If he then got scared by your reaction he may well have panicked - I have known dogs do this when they are scared by what seems, to them, to be aggression on the part of their "boss".

The two best methods I know of opening a reluctant mouth is to press the dog's top lip either onto the tip of their canine tooth, or onto the first pre-molar just behind the canines. You gradually increase the pressure, saying "Give", until the dog opens its mouth of its own accord. Stay calm and matter-of-fact about it, praise when you've got the "treasure" and reward with praise and a treat (swopsies!)

Hope this helps :)

I think you've frightened him, and being cornered he reacted in the way nature has told him he should - this is why getting confrontational with a dog is not a good idea, as you've found out - they have big sharp pointy teeth!! The best way to get something from a dog is to offer something even more tempting (and let him have it when he's given up the thing you don't want him to have). Just one other thing - don't believe because he appeared subdued that he 'knew' he'd done wrong - he was just exhibiting doggie body language that tells the 'Alpha' to please not get heavy, because he's learnt now that humans can get stressed out about stuff he doesn't understand.

One of the biggest reasons for dog and pups getting possessive over "stuff" is because of the owner's reaction. Because we seem so excited and concerned, we are teaching that what has happened is a Big Thing, and Very Important in the scheme of things.

If the item is not important, it really is best in my view to ignore what is happening - just try to keep stuff out of reach. Also, teach "swopsies" s as Jeangenie has suggested, and with all household items you can think of , as well as toys. Once the dog finds it rewarding to give stuff up, and feels that is what you actuallywant, life will be much easier.

Always try to be aware of what you are teaching the dog by your reaction - I once made the mistake of trying to grab a sock from my pup, that led to a sock fetish which took ages to sort out :)

It was silly as i was in a rush and normally she always gave stuff up, but becasue i grabbed it and then stupidly chased her, I taught her to try to keep it. She never growled, but just was soooooooo stubborn, we actually took a photo of her with this expression on her face !!! I will always treasure it :D

Lindsay

Hi David ,
we were advised by our trainer to offer a treat when wanting your dog to give up something from its mouth . The dog will obviously go for the treat and drop what ever it is you want from him .
I would like to think its his teeth that caused this problem
Our pup is nearly 5 months now and he has his biggies coming through . We are encouraged at class to "handle" our dogs and when our trainer attempted to look at his teeth , she only moved his lip and he yelped in pain .
Good luck
Lel

Lel,

Giving a treat only works if the object you want the dog to drop isn't something small that your dog is trying to eat. It sometimes will only encourage them to swallow whatever they have quicker in order to make room for the treat.

Stacey

It's probably best to set up training situations rather than trying to do all this when the situation may be fraught or tense ;)

Choose items at first that the dog isnt too bothered about - for example many dogs will pick up their own toy and then give it to you, or on the floor, if you are going to throw it or tug it etc. YOu can start in a basic way by rewarding him when he does this, for high motivation and teaching use really tasty treats - chicken, sausages, liver. NOT just biscuits unless he happens to be a real biccy lover

Then, give the toy back or throw it, repeat this lots, and in the meantime keep household items out of reach. (Yes easier said than done, but you must!!! )

Have little happy sessions several times a day - if he growls totally ignore him. But do make sure you are not making him feel threatened, keep body language friendly, approach side on, smile. Happyvoice.

If necessary, if he doesn't play or doesn't give up anything, just give him something not too worrying - low value, maybe a sheet of newspaper, and when he does eventually drop it, say, "Good, Drop" and give the treat immediatley. Its imporatant he doesnn't think you are coming to get him when you reward him, so if necessary, chuck it near him.

After some time he will realise he gets nice rewards when he drops, and it will be possible to gradually bring the training on to more items of high value to him, socks or whatever he grabs most. Eventually he will give up stuff, and after some time you can just reward intermittenly.

Having said all this, it is not easy to convey everything via email and my sincere recommendation would be to get in a reputable behaviourist, (your vet could advise) esp. in view of the fact that he reacted strongly. It would just make it a lot easier for you and him, as you could be actually shown and the B. would come to your home and advise. There is a slight risk that if you do choose to sort him out yourself, and do the wr0ng thing accidentally, he may get harder to train out of this :)

LIndsay

Just checked out where you live, I know an excellent trainer (not behaviourist but he's very good) in Fife :) Let me know if you want his details. Hth.

Yes Lindsay i would like the details if you have them.
He is a lot better now that the situation has calmed down and with putting more emphasis into his training. He was brilliant at puppy classes but my own fault i have not put in as much effort lately.
I have started again with regular 10 min sessions and he is responding again, when he feels like it. I think he is going through adolesence as well.
There has been no more signs of the attitude he had the other day, but is as stubborn as hell when he wants to be. The weather has broken up here a lot over the last few days so there will be more interesting walks coming up also. every time we stepped foot out the door this week it has poured down with rain. Hopefully everything will sort itself out soon.
But i would like to speak to the behaviourist to see if he can give me further pointers.

Thanks,
David.

Glad to hear things are going well, I have mailed you privately with details, HTH a bit :)

Lindsay

Thanks Lindsay,
The telephone number is only the next town to me so i will give him a call this week.
He has calmed down a lot since last week and was an angel yesterday. but i will call this guy and get some profesional advice.

Thanks,
David.

This morning Broxi was chewing on a rawhide bone and i thought i will try to take it from him to see his reaction. I started to take it from him and he growled, the harder i pulled the tighter his grip became, but his whole body was shaking. i got it of him and he turned not to bite but more to mouth. I reasured him and gave him it back. i then went to get again after a couple of minutes later and the same happened but he gave it up much quicker this time. Does he just need a lot of reassurance that nothing bad is going to happen to him. my fear is that the kids try to get something back from him and this happens. he fine in all other aspects whith everybody just this possesiveness over objects. I am also considering having him neutered do you think this will calm him down.

David.

Hi David,
Although worrying, this is completely normal! As you have seen, the because you gave it back the first time, he was less reluctant to let you have it the second time. If you can practice this, saying "Give" or "Show me" calmly each time, and gently take it from him, saying "good boy" when you've got it, hold it for a few seconds, then say "gently" as you give it back, he will soon learn that you won't take these things away permanently.
Once he's good at this with you, get the children to practice it just the same with him (under your supervision of course) and he will become reliable and trusting with them too.

Good luck :)