I was reading an article in Our Dogs (31st Jan) and saw that from looking at various hip scores from labs and gordon setters, they have concluded that dogs born in Nov to May are more likely to have a higher hip score. In labs the average rise is about 1.5 (mean score) and in gordons it is about 4-5. Also the score tends to rise as they get older, so anyone testing a bitch for the first time when she is a few years old will have a higher hip score than if it was done at 1 year.

The rise in the hip score between those months is put down to the fact that when the pups are growing, the hard ground has an adverse effect on their joints.

I would be interested to hear others thoughts on these findings as I am curious about the relation between higher hip scores and the months in which they are bred.

Thanks :-)

Years ago I could go along with that but just thinking over the last couple of winters and it is very rarely that the ground is frozen for more than a few days and I would have thought that would have been balanced by the few days in summer when the ground is baked hard. Had it been the other way around with the better weather tempting people to stay out too long over exercising their dogs then I could have understood it. I can't quite see a reason for their claim!

Regards, John

You seem to be clued up on hipscores etc, what is the theory that some dogs with uneven scores ie a big difference on both sides can it be the result of an injury that we are unaware of, when litter brothers and sisters have low scores your reply would be most interesting just curious to find out more hope you dont mind

Tracy

It has always been an argument, in very dis-similar scores which it the "Real" score? Think about it for a moment. If the hip is a genetic thing then one set of genes control both hips so it follows that both hips should be the same. (To all intents and purposes although obviously slight differences could be down to placement, damage, or even the side the puppy usually lays when sleeping!!!) If the scores are very much different then how can it be a genetic thing? It's possible for a hip to be damaged at any time from when the foetus is first formed right up to the time the bones have hardened at around a year old so you have to wonder how any dog can have really good hips!

That’s the thinking of a lot of people but I stress we might be barking up the wrong tree. It's also why it is so important to build up a picture over a number of generations. But even then we can still have trouble. I have known of stud dogs who have in the past sired good hips be put to bitches who again have thrown good hips and the result is some disasters! The mating just did not gel! Something in the background of both came out! I have also seen bitches with one good hip be used and produce poor hips!

Really, to use anything apart from two good hips is taking a risk.

Regards, John

One of lifes mysteries and always will be :) it's not an exact science, we know that...so what is it..pot luck ?? cos it seems like it at times. All we can do is continue to be sensible with breeding programmes and keep everything crossed..
:)
Tracey

John, it's an interesting and probably very valid point that you've made about the inheritance factor should express itself as the same for both hips. I hadn't thought about it before, but it does make sense.

I was thinking about problems that we had with a dodgy story of a bitch who came to Noof earlier on. Would you have any references to articles that suggest that one-sided hips are more likely to be the result of environment/accident than heredity? I may have to eat my words if so.

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

I too would be very interested in any articles on this aspect as well although I did find one which was most interesting READ THE BREEDING DESCIONS paragraph

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html

http://www.gsdhelpline.com/bvahips2.htm

Janines

Hi Jo.
No, I've got nothing to prove the point, just the following through of a few litters which "Appear" to bear it out. The opposite side of the coin is that I know a litter from a bitch with one good hip where by and large the hips of the offspring were very poor, which seems to bear out the contrary!

Pot luck Tracey? No, not really. If we do the best we can then ok, sometimes it goes wrong! But taken over a number of litters your average will be better than it would otherwise be. Talking to a Labrador breeder one evening at eye testing and she said that just by changing the surface the very young puppies walked on improved her average scores!

There is no way of making a puppy's hips better than is genetically possible BUT, It's easy to make them worse!

Regards, John