Hi all as you know i have a 2 1/2 year old yellow lab dog and now a 6 mth black lab dog.
I have opened this thread beacuse i have a few problems with them and would be interested to hear other peoples problems as well as solutions to do with their labs. I know dogs are similar in most cases but i am just interested to hear more about other peoples experiences to do with the lab breed. ( especially form John and Mattie as i know you both are experienced in this field!)
My problems are as follows 1) Both are getting better on the recall because of much usefull help found from previous threads but when they are off the lead they both tend to go quite a distance from me (i.e out of sight!) before they realise it is too far! any ideas how to keep them nearer to me?, i have tried the hideing thing which doesnt really help that much!
2) The elder is still pulling on the lead despite attempts with a harness, gentle leader and praise/treats when he does walk well. He was our first dog and we were late to introduce walking to the heel! He is currently on a choker. Any ideas? 3) The elder (again) only really listens to my commands when he wants to such as sit etc, he seems to say " if you think im sitting on this wet floor just because you want me you can forget it unless i get some of those lovley gravy bones, hehe " but obviously i dont want to constantly get him too used to them!
4) Are everyone elses' dogs quite quiet or very excited when they are just about to go for a walk? both of mine ( despite walking them twice daily) are to the point of running around like mad hatters untill the lead is placed over the neck! And sometimes that is hard enough as they are still running around with the excitment!

Pheww that was long!

Help would be greatley appreciated!

Mark

Hello mark can I ask? are you trying to train them together? because when two dogs are together its difficult.
Years and years ago we always bought two pups together (I know yours are different in ages) I had a fair few problems with them but when I learnt that one to one training walking etc gave me good results I found I only ever needed a slip rope lead from then on.
We get a lot of dogs in rescue which have these fancy contraptions on their nose etc and I dont like them at all,may I suggest time permitting that you take your dogs out seperately for a short period at a time and just do some fun training one to one and then let them have a run together say in the garden just for a while see if it results in any better behaviour.
Incidently with my new pup which is a GWP I expected trouble on recall but even he drops everything when I call and comes straight back and Ive never used treats. They need to come back to you because they want to.
Im having a go at whistle training now.:) bet that should be fun.
Anyway Im sure John will be along after work with some good training hints he is very good in that department :)
Good Luck

Thanks Mattie, I too have started useing the whistle 1 peep for sit, 2 for recall and one long for lie down. It works with the recall ( which i think is one of the reasons they are now starting to come back ) someone once told me to use 2 peeps to call them in closer to you and 3 pepps for the recall, but for the life of me i cant work out how to train them well on 2 peeps for closer!

Mark

My partner had a black lab with exactly the same problem. Whenever we went for a walk with him, the dog would be taking us for a walk rather than us taking him for a walk! And also if knew he was going for a walk he'd run around us in a circle for about 10 minutes and it was murder trying to get him to sit quietly to put the lead on. The running off wen out walking was also an issue

Can I ask how often you take him for a walk and if he is on his own for long periods of time? We found that if the dog was left alone for an length of time, he'd be over excited when anyone went near him to take him for a walk. Similarly, if he wasn't given a long walk each day he'd be made on his next walk. Establishing a strict routine is mega important for labs!

To be honest, I always felt that perhaps he wasn't trained enough as a puppy! also he was a particularly lean and athletic lab and thrived on playing and sport etc.
I would seriously suggest you take the older lab to some training classes...Maybe some good citizen classes and even agility exercising would use up that extra hyperactivity. Its never too late to train or get your dog into new habits while getting rid of the old. Labs thrive on positive training and will do anything if they think their's food involved...manipulate the hound into obeying you!

Unfortunately, the black lab died not so long ago and now we have a chocolate puppy (3 months) and i'm going to take him to classes to try and prevent the same lead/ collar/ walking/ maniac problems.

I hope this helps...you're never alone with these problems!
Francy

Franc, Yes the dogs are on their own for most of the day whilst we are at work so maybe that is an issue and the reason for their excitment for walks etc! Regards your dog walking you how did you get past that problem?!

Mark

Hi Mark,

Dog walking...well the most successful way and not necessarily the wisest way was we used to bring a bag of treats and keep one in your hand so they can smell it. Verbally prasing when they walk gently to keep the dogs attention and then gradually removing that! I don't know if how I wrote it makes sense but the black lab obviously was better behaved, walked more gently and stayed nearby if he thought food was about. There were moments that blipped but an improvement did happen. give it a go...remember just think if your adult dog was a rescue dog and you'd brought him home he would learn new habits so try and mould these. I can't actually tell you it worked 100% as Max died when he was only 5 in an accident...but he massively improved his behaviour leaps and bounds...

Also...Max was left on his own pretty much for most of the day too. Labs suffer from Seperation Anxiety and get destructive and then over excited when attention comes its way. To counter act...you need to spend as much time as you can with the dogs when you are home or maybe if its an option to hire a dog walker for the day or get someone to pop in. My partner got someone to do this and his behaviour improved. There is quite a few books out there that talk about this...its a real common lab thing. I'll jot down some names and post them tomorrow for you if you want.

Please let me know how you get on. I know with my new pup I'm trying to avoid any of the negative things that moulded the destructive
behaviour of the black lab.

Let me know how you get on. Don't worry...labs are easy to train...so a bit of hard work will pay off!

Francy

Labs, especially young ones, need a lot of time for running off lead. Try taking them to a contained field or dog park at least twice a week. You should try and ignore them when they're that excited (especially if they're barking). Refuse to take them outside until they calm down. It will be very hard at first!!!

Hi,

Regarding the pulling on the lead, our last Labrador was a really bad puller as a puppy and we tried everything to cure him.
The solution was a "Halti", he hated it but within two or three weeks he stopped pulling completely & we never had to use it again :)
I've got two new Labrador pups now since our old boy passed on and one is fine walking on the lead while the other does pull a bit.

If there's no improvement I'll be getting the "Halti" out again, you might want to consider trying one ?

Fab, Isnt a Halti the same as a Gentle Leader or am i getting confused, because i did try that but he didnt seem swayed and kept pulling so i reverted back to the choker, to be fair its only for the first 5-10mins that he pulls then he walks like a right good-en! Or he will pull quiet hard when he see's other dogs and other people.

Mark

Sorry Mark, I didn't read your post properly of course your correct they are the same, I'm surprised he kept pulling though as I said my last Lab hated it and stopped very quickly.
Sounds like your making some progress if he walks properly after 5 or 10 minutes, that shows he does know how to do it he just has to get over his initial exuberance at the start of walks now, easier said than done ( Iknow !)

Just going out but I'll be back later and I'll post then.

Regards, John

Right, I’m back now so. . . . . . .

Taking 4/ first. Most dogs are a little excited when they are being got ready for a walk and even possibly for the first few yards. Anna usually goes out through the gate at an altitude of around 3feet! She will not be pulling on the lead but is just trying to touch my cheek with her nose. As soon as I get to the road she is settled. This is where I have in the past made the point that “we don’t play here” As a young puppy, I would stop at this point and would not restart until my puppy had settled. No messing, not another pace forward until the bouncing stopped however long it took. Excitement is only exciting for as long as there is movement and when movement stops excitement soon stops too!

Following on from there to 2/ For working on the lead I use a rope gundog slip lead. These if you look at them have a sliding stop, usually a rubber disk or a leather fob around the rope. Position the lead high up on the dog’s neck and slide the stop down until it is holding the lead tight, (not strangling tight) around the dogs neck. When I say high I mean about three quarters of the way up the neck, keep well away from the ears where there is a strong risk of injury. Give a command when you start walking and step of. Praise as you start because at that point your dog is in the right place, but as soon as he gets in front stop, simultaneously saying “No” and pat your leg to encourage him back into position. As soon as he is back in position again, say the command again and step off again repeating the praise. If you are consistent, (And you must be!) he will soon learn that he will only get to where he is going if he walks to heel! Vary the pace you walk at. Make him THINK instead of dragging you along whilst he is on autopilot. Throw in a “Left About Turn”, where you are turning into your dog whilst about turning. You are then crowding him out and sending him the message that dogs get out of humans way not the other way round.

In the case of 1/ In order to keep your dog(s) close to you when free running it is only necessary to make the area around you more interesting that the far distance horizon! Easier said than done? I take a couple of toys with me. The knotted rope Tuggers are ideal, and play with my puppies. Toss one around a couple of yards or so in front. Encourage the dog back, if necessary with the other one. Your dogs will soon get the idea of bringing it back to continue the game and not only are you training them to stay close but you are also training the recall! Two for the price of one!

Getting on to 3/ I never treat a working gundog but in the days when I was working obedience then yes, I did use treats. There is one thing to remember about treats, and that is, you might just need your dog to come back when you haven’t got any! Treats are great as an invisible lead to show a dog what is wanted but so often with a dog the food becomes part of the exercise and not a reward for. At some stage the encouragement must stop and the compulsion must start. A dog cannot, for safety reasons, pick and choose which commands he obeys! You cannot tell a dog off for not obeying a command if he does not know the correct response to the command but, if I am sure he does know then I would leave my dog in no doubt of the fact that I wont tolerate disobedience.

As Mattie said, training two at the same time is never easy but from the way I read it I would guess your older dog is not so bad. Trouble is, the young puppy always tends to get the older one excited so they forget past training and need a reminder.

A thought about training, how many dogs will walk to heel in the park? Not many I would guess. The reason is that people regard the park as a rest for them as well. Lead comes off and that’s it until the walk home. Training should be carried out everywhere! Train everywhere and your dog will work anywhere.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Regards, John

John, Many thanks for your reply i have read with interest and will take most things on bored.

Thanks again,

Mark

Told you he was good ;) ;)

That he is mattie! lol

Someone get the builders in to widen the entrances for John. Ingrid xx

Hey, watch it you two!

Hi
This is only a tiny tip - I'm not experienced enough for full blown advice :) My chocolate lab, Dylan pulled on the lead for about 6 months. I finally realised that one of the problems I had was actually too much praise when he was walking nicely. if I verbally acknowledged him when he was walking to heel by saying 'good boy', this excited him and he started to pull again. I eventually got round it by saying no and stopping dead when he pulled, and through physical contact (stroking the top of his head) and saying 'that's it' really quietly and calmly when he walked to heel.
Zoe

God help us when he has done "the big ring" at crufts in his kilt LOL (((ducking)))

I'M NOT WEARING A KILT! Breeks yes, kilt, NO!

That's what he thinks eh Mattie, how much do you reckon the we could raise for Lab rescue on this one ???? Ingrid :D

lots and lots :)

what are breeks ????
scatty

Scottish word for Trousers.