deleted

oh thats shocking, i thought this sort of selling had been banned-wonder how many of them where stolen :(

Sounds like the RSPCA should try to stop them to me??
Gina

Deleted

where in the country was this,so that owner;s that have had they dog stolen could go and look,i know if one of mine got stolen and this was going on i be up there like a shot,and i would report it to the police,like someone said in another post how do you know that they where not stolen,were they adult or puppies,

i would be very aware of this,

Hi Deary
I hope you don`t mind me asking but could you tell me exactly where the sale was?
Carole

This is the first time I have heard of this and it would certainly be useful to people who have had dogs stolen. It is incredible that this is allowed to happen at all and the fact that the dogs are healthy is in a surreal way suspicious. Is it just at horse sales this is happening? Time to email the RSPCA again maybe!!!

Deleted

Deary good for you - well done! I would have thought the same, you spoke to an officer and would think it was above board :( I had never considered the sale of dogs at horse/livestock markets, what an excellent opportunity for dog thieves - this has to be stopped :( :( :( that is even without the issue of the welfare of these dogs which makes my blood boil!!!! Julie:)

Shouldnt the RSPCA have at least been checking to see that these people were at least responsible owners or breeders and yeah they should have something in place incase of stolen dogs surely .
Whos to say badly treated / abused or ill dogs were being traded . I think its sick .
Pet shops are horrible but at least there is some sort of regulations and inspections there .

I don't know the ins and outs of sales such as this but surely the people selling these dogs need some kind of licence or are they covered under the auction?
Bec

I have a puppy buyer (well she is 7 now) who has breeds horses in a villiage near Wotton. I could ring her, she would be bound to know of a horse sale so close to her.

Deary, can you please confirm the location was it Wooton under edge in Gloucestershire? Having contacted the local animal welfare officer of that area NDWA in Tewksbury and RSPCA none of whom have any knowledge including a local resident in the area involved both in dogs and horses. I am beginning to think that the location is incorrect. I would appreciate an off line email for the accurate address on the auction papers as well as the address of farm or licensed premises livestock market or wherever it was held please. There are too many dogs stolen to order have to know where these dogs are acquired from ect. Thanks Pat

Did you get the RSPCA inspecters I.D number etc? I wonder if he was completely bogus and possibly one of the potential conmen luring potential buyers into a false sense of security. :(
Julie

double

I have closed down the sale of pups at the Ballinasloe Horse Fair ON MY OWN. No ISPCA in sight, not even the Horse Protection League! I went to get the police and told them that the sale of pets in public places is prohibited by law. The Fair Commitee got involved and they had to go. The police even gave me the names and addresses of the puppy dealers and I could take it from there.

Taylor

Oh god its so sad? :( Julieann

Deleted

This is terrible. How many dogs were stolen someone
else said. I should think a lot.
Were their any Weimaraners for sale?
Nutkin

Someone asked how many dogs a year are stolen (this information is taken from the Missing Dogs Bureau)

5,679 pets go missing each week alone - and 38% of all dogs that vanish each year are stolen. That means over 50,000 dogs per year are nicked, very often to order, for ransom, or for breeding purposes.

"The reasons for dogs being stolen vary greatly," said Rupert Honywood, from the Missing Pets Bureau. "Often it is a simple opportunist theft but sometimes it's more sinister and we are aware of cases where dogs are 'trailed and stolen to order' when the owners are out or when the owners are in bed asleep".

Scary hey?

Coleen

One reason why I refuse to fit a dogflap to the door. Another is that, if my dog can get in and out, so can a burglar!

If there are dogs being sold at Southall then this is very very bad news. This really is a cruel and nasty place. It is where most of the no hopers of the equine world ends up. Back in the 70s when the price of foals dropped to as low as £5 I remember a foal breaking free and running up Southall High Street. Such was its lack of value they didnt even try to get it back. There was certainly a trade in stolen horses there and although they have tried to clean it up once or twice as far as I know they never suceeded.
The sellers are mainly travellers and there used to many flair ups between them. They are naturally suspicious of outsiders so please if you do go there be very carefull.

i used to live just down the road from southall market & i have been a few times this is going back some ten years ago. It used to be blooming horrible back then hopfully it will have changed for the better. It was not a nice place then.
scatty

I also grew up in the area and remember the Southall market selling dogs from little cages or even cardboard boxes :( So this must have been going on there for 20 or 30 years? I moved away 13 years ago, so I can't confirm that it still goes on, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Joan

Absolutely shocking. I police in a rural area and I have no desire to start debates on gypsies/new age travellers/ romanies whatever you want to call them, but everytime we have a camp settle in our county, we get reports of dogs going missing/being stolen. And that's nothing compared with the burglary rates that go sky high whilst they are resident.

Anything upto 20 dogs a time go missing and these kinds of sales must be exactly how these animals are being sold. A troop of RSPCA inspectors should be there scanning all those dogs for chips and a police officers armed with a list of recently stolen dogs - but best of all, it shouldn't happen at all.

I shall keep an eye out for any horse sales in our area and pay a little visit. I could clear up our crime rates on one swoop!

Thanks Deary - you've opened our eyes to something new.

Lady G

Hello,

At our local horse market the gypsies were always there selling JRT type terriers and collies, they used to have a van load, preying on decent folks good natures. Most of the pups were sold, the market knew it went on but nothing was ever done, this market was in Northampton and has recently closed. One of them even had the cheek to ask how much I wanted for my dog! Over my dead body!

Thank you Deary
I just can`t bear to think of those poor Spinone and the other breeds.Spinone are such a sensitive loving breed they will probably be scared for life from that experience.
Were they puppies or older dogs.I thought this kind of thing was illegal now.
Thank you for the info and if you get to know anything else I would be interested.
Carole

And do spare a thought for the poor horses who end up probably as dog meat at these sales.

The RSPCA are not good in respect of horse I am afraid. The ILPH is best.

Sixpence

Hi

Contacted the local RSPCA today 'Wotton under Edge'. I think I must have gotten the wrong Wotton - as they cannot give me any details about a horse sale or a RSPCA Inspector visiting one. They do not know of any auctions in Wotton - so I must have got it wrong. I would like to pass this over to someone who has a strong interest in stolen dogs, I am sure she would visit one of these auctions with her list of dogs stolen. Can anyone please point me to the right area that the auction was held at.

Thanks
Coleen

I really am very perplexed about this as I cannot find anyone who knows about the sale. Even spoke to a lady who lives in that area and is a member of the Parish Council. Has horses and dogs but she is as in the dark as me. You say it was a respectable sale (on a farm and private) but you call it a auction room in another sentence. Auction rooms are not usually on farmers land. Unless the owner of the farm had just set up a room for the sale. But you mentioned printed catolugues which makes it sound like a licensed auction room for selling livestock. Having been to dozens of these then there must be a way to contact this one, and get some details. They usually advertise auctions/sales in the local press. Although if this was a licensed auction company then the dogs would have been mentioned in the catologue. So all in all it is very confusing.

How did you get to hear about it? Could we perhaps contact the auction company, you said your friend had a printed catologue. After all Wotton or wherever in Wotton is not that big.

Have spoken to the NCDL regarding this - although not black and white (what in law ever is) IF the sale was on private land then there really is nothing that can be done. The dogs should not have been there for 48 hours prior to the sale (as this then requires a pets shops license). All in all the law offers very little if any protection for the dogs. I know scores of people who would like more information about this - the people with stolen dogs at the top of the list.

Please Deary send some more information through.
Will contact petseatch and see if they are aware of these sales.

Coleen

I agree - all a bit confusing. Any registered animal sales/auctions are held on ' purpose built ' sites such as a cattle market and auction room. The RSPCA are in attendance at such sales. This does not necessarily mean that you or I would be comfortable with the manner in which the horses, sheep, chickens etc are housed and treated, but it SHOULD mean that it is all legal and above board. For an auction of dogs to be held here????? If however, this was a PRIVATE auction for invited guests and friends advertised by a word of mouth system on private land - who knows - it doesn't bear thinking about!
Jackie

We have spoken to the RSPCA Inspector for Wotton Under Edge this morning he has NO knowledge of this sale/auction. Nor any phone calls relating to this sale. He was most certainly not at any sale in that area. He has now gone off to make further enquiries and will get back to us. Also after speaking to numerous people in the area auction houses, stables, etc we can find no trace of this sale. So again would have to ask - exactly which Wotton are we talking about.

All the people we have spoken to who deal with stolen dogs incidents (say these breeds are all on the stolen dogs register up and down the Country) Many of these organisation are interested in these sales if we can just establish the true facts.

if you wonder why are we bothering - then ask yourself how you would feel if your dog had been stolen. Have you ever spoken to anyone who is searching for their dog? Some people will go to the ends of the Earth if they think they might just see their dog again.

.

Hi Colleen,
In one of her posts near the top of this thread, Deary has said that the village is Wotton in Glos. (Don't know the area so I don't know if this narrows it down ;) ) She also said that there was an RSPCA officer very visible at the 'event' and so whilst unhappy didn't do anything at that point. Later she phoned the RSPCA and they had no knowledge of if and were not aware that any of their officers had been present. So it looks as though either he was a fake (how easy that would be I don''t know) or that he had kept quiet about it.

So that is why they don't know anything - but Deary said that she was sending them details of the farm etc.

:)

Well he must have been a fake then. As we have spoken to the Inspector from Wotton Gloucestershire. But if he was a fake - that still does not explain why the RSPCA have no calls logged regarding the sale. They have checked and their is nothing on their data base about any calls regarding a sale/auction. So until Deary posts again - this is all very odd.

Coleen

Perhaps he was a RSPCA Inspector from outside the area. Some of them specialise in other aspects - in this case it would have been horses. I cannot see whoever it was being bogus.

Apparently if all the dogs looked heathy then there was nothing that the society could do. If stolen dogs were suspected then the Police have to be informed. But as Deary said the Inspector told her the mini market happened once a month - it must be known about within the area. You cannot keep something like that hushed up. If they are selling they need buyers!

Sad for the dog concerned to be stuck in cages and sold like that into what, one wonders.

Oh well a mystery.

Coleen

I thought that Deary was ill - and that was why she chose not to answer any of the questions that I have posted. Having seen that she posted to the showing board this morning that obviously cannot be the reason. Asking who is going to Manchester is of a more important nature then replying to the posts in this thread.

So I have to ask - did you in fact attend this sale. As I and several other people can find No proof of the event taking place.

I have animal rescue people in the area contacting Vets, Auctions, Farmers, Livery Stables, all are coming back with a NO. Several have looked at Deary's postings. They want to know whereabouts in Wotton did this sale take place as they are better placed to monitor and try and put a stop to it. But, as they have combed the area it is all looking a bit thin.

Dogs being sold from cages, this raises all manner of questions. Who do they belong to, where do they go back to in between sales. Where do the puppies come from? Are they stolen? The questions are endless.

Surely you realise that you cannot just post something like that - and then walk away and choose not to answer any more questions. You chose to set the ball rolling with your posting at least have the common desceny and kindness to put the record straight.
If I am out of order then tell me so. I will be the first to say sorry.

Perhaps when you posted you never thought anyone would take up the issue. You should perhaps consider and remember that all manner of people read and contribute to message boards. What you posted was serious for myself and others to try and do something about it.

If you have correct information that cannot be posted on the group then please email me privately my email is listed.

Coleen

I did say that as soon as my friend who had the details of names etc let me know what was happening i would let you all know but it seems now that this whole thing is my fault.
How could i possiby know where these dogs come from and where they go to inbetween sales, i went there once with friends to a place i have never been, to a farm that i have never been to, with other people there that i have never met before!!
I personally do not deal in stolen dogs or have any info about them, like you seem to think i do.
All i did was post something that i saw on this board that i thought would make people realise what goes on not just at one place but all over the country like other people have said aswell.
As for walking away, who's walked away?
How can i answer questions that i don't know the answers.
And why the hell would i make something like this up, dogs are my life and the thought of stolen dogs makes me feel sick to the stomach, i would not dream of winding people up in that way!!
I had one of my dogs stolen 4 years ago so i know how owners of stolen dogs feel thankyou very much !!!
i just told you what i saw and what i was told.
How do i know if this takes place every month or was just a one off, only going on what i was told at the time!!!
It seems that i am on trial for something that i have not done.
I will not be posting on here again in the near future until people on here can learn that outsiders such as myself are only trying to help.
as you can see i have deleted the posts as there no point carrying on with this if 1 you are not believed and 2 no matter what i say i am in the wrong.
When i have the info i will email the interested people privately

For what it's worth Sam - I believe you :)

Fiona
x x x

Oh Deary, don't take it to heart :) You're posts and questions on the actual market day might've been enough to put a stop to the shannanigins. Whatever the outcome you've done a good thing highlighting the problem.
Thankyou
Julie :)

No, I cannot agree, it is not a good thing highlighting the problem if information relating to a serious incident of concern giving dates, locations and details of events and persons present is inaccurate. It would have been far better to have ommitted the location if it was not a definate. As it was the message was taken on face value and investigated by people who have a very genuine interest and concern for dog welfare. This has wasted much time and effort involved many individuals and organisations on seeking out where this event was supposed to have taken place all drawing a blank in the location that was mentioned on the original message. Which now has been deleted, I cannot help but wonder why?
There are thousands of people in despair because their dogs have been stolen and grasp at any sightings or information in the hope of having their much loved pet returned. To post information on various breeds of pedigree dogs being sold at an unexpected location, then not following it through with more info either privately or openly is unfair. An appology for getting it wrong, would have been acceptable too - but silence, this is not acceptable. I and others with genuine concern for dog welfare welcome information and are prepared to spend hours, days, weeks, months on an issue but wasting people time is not acceptable. This has been checked out completely and wherever it took place if it ever did was certainly not in Wotton. If I am wrong and Deary can verify this, then I appologise in advance. However dashing people hopes of perhaps being reunited with their dog should this have been a person selling dogs acquired by unsound means is not acceptable. When people post please in future think very carefully please about what you say, you do not know who reads the board and how what you post may affect them or what their circumstances are.
Thank you Pat

Shoot the messenger comes to mind, as does an imagine of people running about halfcocked like headless chickens. Deary doesn't owe anyone an apology, she stated her situation. Deary perhaps will resolve this discreetly. It's not her fault a little patience wasn't exercised. Rather than publically attacking someone for voicing concern, would it have been so hard to actually arrange a meeting so she could show you(or a welfare officer) the location in person? Dog theft is a horrible crime, but you can't possibly put that on Deary's shoulders....she didn't post to say she'd found stolen dogs. We should concentrate our anger on the criminals that deserve it, not concerned doglovers who try to help and question things that look suspicious.
Thankyou
Julie :)

I agree Julie, nowhere did Deary say they were stolen dogs so how someone can accuse her of 'dashing peoples hopes at perhaps being reunited with their dogs' etc etc; is just OTT.Deary said any information would be given to the relevant authorities, i see no reason for certain people to start a personal attack.

Deary, I cannot understand why you are getting so upset, when you first posted you gave a location. If you came back to the board you would have read that people were very concerned about what you had written and were individually trying to find out more concentrating their efforts in the area that you said you had been. I know it is easy in strange surroundings to not be certain of exact locations but if you had only checked the board you would have seen that direction/correction was needed. You could have easilly said you were not certain of the location this would have avoided wasted time and effort making enquiries in the wrong location. No one suggested that you 'deal' or had any knowledge that these dogs may have been stolen, although if you have had a dog stolen yourself did this not cross your mind? This type of information is helpful but it must be as accurate as possible and if not certain then at least say so. As it turns out the location could not have been correct as no one in the area and there were a vast many people that would have known had it been correct. I am not saying it did not take place but not where you said it did. Really it is the people that spent time, effort and money seeking to help based on what you wrote that should be upset not you getting a strop on when questioned. No one spoke to you in a rude or derogative manner to make you not want to post on the board, all sounds a bit silly to me to behave in this manner, we all make mistakes. To admit to them is the way forward.
Pat