Completely unreasonable and random dog training.

I reckon I must read, learn and teach my dog myself which fit the best my GSD.

To be honest on this forum I have found more sensible advice than at Rovyon, Southampton Academy and my list is quite long. Hope I won't offend anyone who is a real professional here but they are such a minority, really challenging to find.

I m quite annoyed when you tell my dog  has a problem in a class where he is perfect quiet, calm, doing all and behaving but it is only a scary huge black GSD. The rest of dogs are agitated barking and staring at my Klaus and the trainer has an issue saying about my dog. Pointless trainer again.

The only few people I found sensible are IGP trainers and some brilliant advice on this forum.

How is regulated the dog training in UK just for my silly curiosity?

I am not sure that it is regulated as such which is why people are directed to places like apdt for example who have particular standards for trainers to meet.  It us also why we say go along and watch without your dog so u know what is being done and if it is what you want
Royvon for example is a private company who seem to dabble in all ares of dog as you have found.
Yes it can be hard to find what u actually want amd you also have to gel with the trainer as you have to with any form of education dog or human. 

Is it regulated in your home country? If so how ?
Others will have more knowledge than me especially any trainers we have on the forum

Sorry, I don't know exactly about Romania as this is my first ever GSD and dog of my life and I m living here and working for the time being. I have started searching for trainers but hard to find.

I was only comparing Germany training with UK, as I stayed 1 months there to check and see.

Much better some advice received from this forum than 10 different opinions from 10 different trainers. It is like with doctors. 10 docs 10 opinions

Love that 10 docs and 10 different opinions .maybe that's your answer
Does Germany appear to be regulated more than us ?

> How is regulated the dog training in UK just for my silly curiosity?

It isn't.  At all.  Literally anyone can set themselves up as a dog trainer, even if they've never so much as seen a dog.

The closest we get is if a trainer joins some sort of organisation, and they have to follow the rules of that organisation.  But the organisations aren't regulated, they don't all have rules, those that do will vary and they don't all hold their trainers to any sort of standard.

The best known example of that currently is Graeme Hall (the Dogs Behaving Badly cretin).  He is a "Master Dog Trainer", which is a title given to anyone who pays the fee with the Guild of Dog Trainers.  It means nothing - you don't need any qualifications to get it, and indeed he has none, as I understand it.

Whereas others of us have qualifications, some only one or two (I have FdSc canine behaviour & training, but no more official), some many, but we aren't members of anywhere for different reasons.  For me it's financial - I've never made enough money to get more qualifications or pay membership fees, otherwise I'd be with the IMDT - and for some it's because they don't feel it's worth it.  It varies.

Regulation is desperately needed but I can't see it happening, at the very least until all the in-fighting stops and the various sides start listening to each other about methods being used.

Your experience is unfortunately very common - I have often been the last trainer in a line of trainers who gave cr@p advice, didn't know what they were talking about, had good ethics but didn't know how to apply force-free methods to complex behavioural situations, etc.  Sometimes I've just been another in a chain, because enough damage has been done that a particular dog needs more specialised help than I can offer, whether that's breed experience, a different approach, access to secure fields and stooge dogs, etc.

It's a minefield.

That man drives me crazy .some of the things he advises or says grrrr

This 'dubious trainers' thing isn't confined to the UK.   As I've said before, years ago now I decided to take one of my Basset girls to local Obedience taining classes.  Her sire had an American Ob. title so I thought why not give it a go, as long as she's enjoying it.  The first few weeks were ok other than in true Basset fashion, rather than heel into and out of a corner in the hall, she'd cut the corner.   Then the trainers (there were 2) decided to get heavy which, again in true Basset fashion, she didn't appreciate and it was more than clear she wasn't enjoying herself.  This couple were into the Doberman and to use food bribes - totally a no-no which had they known anything about my breed, should not have been the case.  So I abandoned any ideas of taking this further.

As for 'Graeme Hall (the Dogs Behaving Badly cretin)' I only watched one of his programme, which happened to include a Basset and that was enough.

I have left classes rather swiftly on occasion! My record is 8 minutes, and he was 4 minutes late starting the class!

I find I get a vibe/feel quite quickly. If we can take something from the class/trainer, we hang around. I may take a selective approach or modify what is being trained if I think we may learn something. More than happy to explain why if the trainer asks. Often they ignore us and presumably just think I can’t follow instruction! Under no circumstances does the trainer get to handle my dog if I am not entirely comfortable with their methods/approach - absolute line drawn here.

Honesty is key. I appreciated one trainer who gave us three classes on a 1to1 basis and then admitted there was nothing more she could offer us, and suggested some colleagues. Fair play to her, and I have recommended her to others.

I also take the view that no one knows my dog like I do. Trainers may know the breed or 1001 other dogs they have trained, but I know him best and I need to be his advocate and work in his best interests.

But yes - staggeringly worrying situation at present. The 8 minute guy is massively popular and I wouldn’t leave a lump of cheese in his care.

I’m beyond tired of hearing trainers on the internet telling me I just have to “correct” my papillon’s fear biting. Apparently if you punish a dog that bites because he’s genuinely panicked that you’re going to hurt him with a brush, he’ll suddenly start loving brushes and not be scared anymore because he knows what the rules are, or something.

I might not have any training qualifications, but I know that it’s more humane and effective to change his mind about brushes so he no longer minds them, rather than punish his (totally understandable) protests. If I have to constantly feed him cheese to get him brushed, I’m fine with that. And if he says he can’t cope, I give him a break and back up. I can tell you, I get a ton more done and he copes a lot better if he knows he can trust me to stop as soon as he asks - he usually just needs a little breather and then we carry on. If I ignored him or punished him he’d lose trust in me and there’s no way I’d get near him with a brush next time.

Respecting his consent has been huge in helping him recover his confidence after the bad experiences and chronic pain he’s had. Graeme Hall would probably laugh at that. But the results speak for themselves - he’s more and more relaxed every time I groom him, and he’s happier and better behaved in general as well.

Heck yes.  I get far more results with chompy dogs with grooming if I listen to them.  Including the shih tzu I've been grooming for 7 years now, who had a horrific first grooming experience and was banned from every groomer in town when I started with him because he'd bitten them all.  It took several years of work and diazepam but he lets me do what I need to and if he's getting uncomfortable now, the first thing he does is either licks my hand, or gently places his teeth on me.  No bites.  Before, his first action was to thrash, scream and try to bite hard.  He is getting grumpier now but he's an old man, dreadfully bred, with iffy joints.  So that's fair enough.

I also used to do the claws on a basset who didn't like people in general.  I'd worked with him for a while behavioural on a separate issue and I've never had a problem with him, to the degree that he'd give my nose a lick when he'd bite anyone else as soon as they came in the room!  I don't do him any more though; last time I tried, I inadvertently hurt him and he bit my leg.  Again, he's getting on and he's sore.  We've not taken the chance since because he'll more than likely do it again now.  Fortunately he's made so much progress that his owners can safely do them without my help these days.

Sometimes I will be firmer with a chompy dog I'm grooming - I've had one in particular who would snap and shriek when I was doing her claws and her, I have told her off.  And that was still after trying the softly-softly approach first.  But the crucial thing is that I can tell the difference between a genuinely frightened dog, and one who just doesn't fancy me doing their claws, thanks!  She's no bother these days.  But the vast majority that do snap or bite, have had bad experiences or are sore, and need a groomer who can recognise that and listen to them, not punish them.

> I also used to do the claws on a basset who didn't like people in general.  I'd worked with him for a while behavioural on a separate issue and I've never had a problem with him, to the degree that he'd give my nose a lick when he'd bite anyone else as soon as they came in the room!  I don't do him any more though; last time I tried, I inadvertently hurt him and he bit my leg.  Again, he's getting on and he's sore.  We've not taken the chance since because he'll more than likely do it again now.  Fortunately he's made so much progress that his owners can safely do them without my help these days.<br />

Such a tragedy to hear of a bitey Basset.  I would say that our first boy, Harvey, was a nightmare re his nails to the point I had to take him to our then vet to be dealt with.  Once up off the ground on the examination table, with me holding him in a headlock, our vet could whip round his feet.  After my experience with him, when we bought our second, Homer, at 10 weeks, I got down to getting him used to having his legs and feet handled.  Mind you, he was a much kinder hound and easier to handle generally.  After that, and once we had our own home-bred puppies, they were all used to having their nails clipped, almost from newborn puppies, to prevent mum from being scratched.

My Whippet hates having her's done but she doesn't attempt to bite - I think her problem goes right back to the day we picked her up at 9 weeks when her breeder, for some reason, grabbed her and proceeded to clip her nails, all in a hurry.  Not a great idea!

Funnily enough, his name is Harvey too!  He had a very bad start as his owner was in a horrendously abusive relationship at the time.  That's where it all comes from.

Oh River does the lick or teeth on hand thing too. He’s clearly not trying to hurt me because I barely feel it, but he’s telling me he’s not happy. I’ve found the earlier I pick up his signals the better, and the more likely he is to “reset” quickly and let me try again. So often he doesn’t have to do his little complain growl (the one that means I’m not happy and would rather you stop, as opposed to I’m panicking and I’ll have to bite in a second) or put his mouth on me. I can tell by freeze, or lip lick, or turning his head, or watching the corners of his lips.

I’m also teaching him to use a scratch board to help with his nails. I haven’t tried cutting them for a while but I’m sure he’d panic so I think it’s probably kinder for the vet to do that under sedation. And we’ll work on desensitising him in the meantime.

Dear Dan, As other posters have said dog training in the UK is unregulated and uncertified. When sitting in on some 'official' dog training sessions I have been appalled and dismayed at the advice given out. For example 'puppies must not socialise before 6 months old as they nip each other and this encourages them to nip their owner'. Really! I have been training gundogs for around 40 years and operate under 'word of mouth' and personal recommendation. It's really a hobby for me, I take no fee just ask for my expenses to be covered and a donation to a number of animal charities. At the moment any charity helping animals in Ukraine and their owners.
I agree that you are the best person to train your dog and GSD's are a pleasure to train. I recommend a number of books to help you with this, Gwen Bailey's 'Puppy School' and 'The Perfect Puppy' although aimed at puppies the principles are the same for an older dog. Then The Association of Pet Dog Trainers 'Top tips from Top Trainers' is a great resource. It is an American book but lots of good advice there. Then I cannot praise highly enough John Fisher's book 'Think Dog'. It will help you understand how your dog thinks, which is very different to us humans.
I am sorry to hear that Klaus is experiencing negative reactions from other dogs. I am afraid this is often inevitable. I have large dogs too and my Flat Coated Retriever, who grew to be a big girl at 45kg, was the sweetest, non confrontational dog you could ever meet but was always met with other dogs growling and barking at her. It is just a defensive response from the other dogs who are usually smaller and decide they will get in first, so to speak. To stop your Klaus becoming reactionary when meeting other dogs try to get him to socialise with others of his size. Is there a GSD club or society anywhere near you? They may hold doggy meetings or some such. Also may be a good source of advice.
Good luck with training Klaus and there are only two things you need to succeed, as Tolstoy wrote 'Patience and time'.

Thanks for advice love it. I don't know who you are but really appreciate

I remember a Royvons Red Rum, a German Shepherd who did a lot of winning the show ring, but that is going back 40 years

I have tried to watch the "dog expert" Graham who is on Channel 5. I switch off muttering to myself that he never uses common sense!

Yvonne James owned & bred Royvons dogs, the Kennel name comes from her husband's & her first names(Roy & Yvonne) he was a known epilepsy producer, despite this he was well used at stud

He was not health tested & inbred to Avon Prince of Alumvale, another source of epilepsy.

The Royvons"training"set up is now run by Darren James, Roy & Yvonne's son.

As to their level or type of training I cannot comment, their training is done behind the gates of the kennels