I was wondering if anyone on here had any information or thoughts on how common DM is in rough collies.

It's on the whole not an issue the breeders concentrate on, nor do many have any of the DNA testing for it on their health testing.

I have had the breed since I was born, but only had 4. I lost one when I was a child to this disease and it appears my rough now has it too. That's 50%, these dogs were not from the same lines at all.

I have some worries here. My dog now is from one of the well known breeders. His litter was a repeat mating of the same dogs from that kennel, they did the mating three times, producing a lot of puppies that went on to other breeders. His dad was also a big champion and prolific sire of many, many dogs.

And somehow there is very little DM testing from the kennel or it's descendants except one result I managed to find (from the same sire and the bitch is DM affected).

I'm not only worried about my own dog, I'm very worried for the breed.

Hi Charlotte

Do you want to send me a PM and we can discuss on email?

I’m sorry to hear about your dog, it’s a heartbreaking diesease that now is entirely preventable. It was for this reason I imported my girl as in Europe they are much further forward in our breed for testing in general, ironically it wasn’t until I had been through this that I met a whole network of breed preservationists in the U.K. breeding for clears in the three main collie dieseases.

But yes it is a very real hidden issue.

Best wishes

Hi there.

Thanks so much for the reply. I'll give you a PM.

Thanks again.

I've no idea how prevalent it is in rough collies but I think it's a disease that's often played down, possibly because it's generally occurs in old age and it's painless.

We're lucky in silkens, when the DNA test for DM first came out the oldest dna samples were tested, every line tested and silkens are the only breed that don't carry the gene at all. Pure luck really as one of the founding breeds (borzoi) are riddled with it, I've lost 2 zois to it.

I don't know why every breeder of every breed doesn't just use a 'test all' program like embark, that test for every possible  disease/variant in one go.

The trouble is, in both my dogs it has come on suddenly and one at 8 and he was very fit, and my dog now is 10 when he first started getting symptoms, he is the most physically fit dog, or was until now. He literally never sat down all day, running everywhere.

It's really lucky not to be in an entire breed. Borzoi's are connected to roughs, so I wonder if there's some connection.

I think there's a huge issue here though. I would assume breeders like their lines they've created so wouldn't want to 'let them go' so just literally ignore it. Most of the breeders I know, including the one I got my current boy from, do not even bother with this testing at all. I think on the whole rough collies are not health tested a great deal compared to other breeds.

At the moment it feels like DM within the breed is kind of a 'don't ask, don't tell' situation.

I think they have huge problems in roughs with MDR1 too, it may be impossible to breed either/both out quickly.

If it's recessive inheritance then breeders have nothing to loose, as they can still breed from Carrier to Clear, until they are able to retain Clears for breeding their lines on.

I have just had.my 2 new pups, now 4 and 6 months, tested with Embark ( did them at 8 and 17 weeks).

Unfortunately both are Carriers for Glaucoma, dissapointing, in that it reduces my choices of potential studs, but at some point I will keep clear offspring.

I may well test before homing if there's little to choose between pups, otherwise I will keep the most promising, regardless.

As an aside fortunately they are clear for DM, as I think all the dogs that have been tested in multi panel screening.

I think the KC's combibreed packages, and single condition testing, is a retrograde step, offering only tests for specific diseases known in a breed.

Bit late to wait until an issue appears iften enough to become a 'breed' problem.

Yes, true, although MDR1 is something that is manageable.

Since getting roughs, I've always assumed they had MDR1 as it was printed all over one of our dog's pedigree to avoid all Ivermectin products. My dog now is MDR1 affected too but his vet is very understanding of this and he's never had an issue with any drugs and did very well under anaesthetic.

But, obviously, it should be bred out if possible, but as long as you know and your vet knows too, it's manageable.

I think its possibly undiagnosed in many breeds or misdiagnosed. There is a DM test which is available for all breeds.

Do you have a health coordinator for any of the breed clubs or the breed council at all that you can approach for advise and guidance and also to discuss the possible issue you have and seeing in at least 2 lines that you are aware of.

Do breeders overseas in any other country routinely test for DM in yhe breed? If they do then approaching their breed clubs might be worth while getting info to add to what you know and taking to a health coordinator here.

Degenerative myelopathy is not simply a genetically recessive condition unfortunately.

This means that the presence of the DM mutation does not necessarily mean that the dog will develop DM, because there are other contributory issues that are involved in a dog's likelyhood of developing DM.

The genetic test available for DM doesn't indicate 100% that the dog will/will not develop DM, it predicts the risk factor for development of DM.

Degenerative myelopathy is, like HD, a very complex condition.

> the presence of the DM mutation does not necessarily mean that the dog will develop DM, because there are other contributory issues that are involved in a dog's likelyhood of developing DM.

In some ways that is similar to Glaucoma in my breed

Dogs with 2 copies of the gene are at risk of developing symptomatic disease, not all do.

BUT dogs with one or no copies won't develop it.

So breeding the mutation out, or ensuring 2 carriers are not mated together to potentially produce afflucted offspring is worthwhile/important.

The embark testing panel for example is only $150 (less if more tests ordered together). It only cost me £10 to return the test by signed for post.

For that over 210 conditions are tested for.

https://embarkvet.com/breeders/?utm_campaign=brd_acq_november_newsletter_20211124%20%28QNULPc%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=klaviyo&_kx=lfrNoyEg_1r-PS7SCVSKrgNJtyfe8g17HDsmohL1hn0%3D.MdepNZ

Currently there is a $40 discount. It's easy to pay by PAYPAL avoiding bank charges.

I so wish that eradicating DM could be achieved with a simple DNA test, however as above it’s just not that straight forward. Such an evil disease.

It could be greatly reduced though, no?

I actually think that may be a place to start.

I'm thinking of getting him DNA tested and sending those results to them and discussing it from there.

The lines here in the UK are dwindling, there's not as big of a gene pool as in German Shepherds, but I've been reading and there was an article in which it said the prevalence is roughly the same in the two breeds.

I really think the breed may be in a worrying situation and a lot of the breeders seem either ignorant of it or know and just don't care enough.

Greatly reduced and then eradicated yes, if we put aside everything else and just bred from those dogs who carry no copy of the gene then soon no dog in that breed would develop DM. Of course it's not that simple, we can't put everything else aside but slowly, slowly dna tests will help eradicate it.

> It could be greatly reduced though, no?

Yes, it could. Just wish it could be eradicated with current testing, wish it was a simple autosomal recessive on a single gene.

Carrier.

When I next keep a pup, I hope that my pick is Clear, but it's important to select for Health, temperament, and quality.

There is also the issue that with multiple testable conditions,.you may get few digs Clear for.them all.

One of the pups I have had a parent carrier of one condition, and the other the second (neither carried the much rare short limb dwarfism), so I eas lucky that pup only carries for one.