Dear all,

Myself and my friend are about to buy 2 GSD puppies from Germany.

Puppies were born on 20 Sept 2021 and

Father tests are: HD / ED normal; DNA profile check and available/ OCD free/ DM carrier N/DM

Mother tests : HD normal free/ ED normal free/ DNA checked / OCD free /LTV 1 mild  / Dental bite complete checked

My only concern is DM for mother and i have asked the breeder and said  DM has not been checked for Mother.

What is your advice for me and my friend shall we go ahead or not buying?

If the father is a carrier and the mother's status is unknown, then there is a chance that the pups could be affected by DM. I would either walk away or demand DNA done for DM on both pups before committing to buying.

Really appreciate your answer as I have asked for DM test and they will be doing it for both pups

Smashing info here and very professional help

I agree with goldmali  . If they are willing to do on pups wondered why they hadn't tested mum .
Its something will potentially be bred out if only all dogs were tested and sensible breeding was done
From your pov if the results are not what u need make sure u can really walk away the longer u are involved the harder it will be

It would be much easier to test Mum, I wonder why they haven't. If testing pups they need to not be nursing, it's a cheek swab dna test so you don't want it contaminated.

With regard to hd and ed what numbers did they show u ? Normal isn't what u usually have as there isn't a normal as such

If they are testing pups then you are going to have a bit of a wait because they have to be separated away from siblings for a period of time and mum unless they are doing a blood draw from them?
It's far easier to test mum and much cheaper too

There are no scores for hips in Germany, they are graded normal, fast normal & noch zulagassen for passes any other grade are fails & dogs are not bred from

To OP will these puppies have pink pedigrees?

Pink pedigree means

You buy from an SV acknowledged kennel
The litter was supervised by a breedwarden
The dog's in the pedigree have been passed for breeding including:-

HD/ED tested
Korung status/rating
Working qualifications
Show ratings

Also you should check the SV site for the HD-Zuchtwerte for the parents

"The HD-Zuchtwerte, referred to as the ZW, is a tool to determine the risk of a GSD to produce hip dysplasia. 100 is average hip production. The lower the number, the better the hip production. Two dogs mating are not expected to have above 100 when their ZW are added together and divided by two. So, for instance, if the mother has a ZW number of 80 and she is mated with a male which has a ZW number of 120 she would be expected to produce puppies with an average scrore of 100. Needless to say, when breeders know the ZW of their bitch and of any possible sire they are not likely to choose a stud dog with a ZW number of 120. They are likely, all things being equal, to seek out stud dogs with low scores.

The “ZW” number is recalculated every three months. It is a complicated mathematic
calculation which takes into account the hip results of ancestors, siblings, and most
importantly, the offspring. Dogs bred in Germany and registered with the SV are included in a database operated by the SV. You can go directly to the SV’s website and enter the name or SV number of the dog to find the ZW score of any dog upon which they hold data. The information is held in the section of the site headed HD-Zuchtwerte. This database makes the hip status of German dogs very transparent it has been in operation for over 40 years which has substantially reduced the incidence of hip dysplasia in German bred dogs."

Thanks for answering

OFA vs FCI /SV ratings :

Excellent - A1 - SV Normal
Good       - A2  - SV Normal
Fair.           B1.  - SV Normal
Borderline B2 -   SV Fast normal

So first 3 accepted in SV ratings but they use fast normal some times

Thank u ann I did wonder if they may be different to how we score . Learning all the time

Really appreciate Ann. Yes it is SV accreditation Battenhäuser Tor kennel

http://www.vombattenhausertor.de

Mother is Easy and father is Witas Lohe
Father is carrier DM and that's why I check mother who has not been tested and raised concerns.

I have asked the breeder either to test mother or puppies to not have any surprises.

I don't have experience and therefore I have asked here

Many thanks

Thank you for reply.

I asked and they say it will be done.

Hopefully it is OK as it is not a big deal and I m happy to pay it.

I will check tonight when back to see.

Shall I walk away or just wait the results for DM for mother?

It would be much easier to test Mum, I wonder why they haven't.

If she came back as a carrier though the pups would still need to be tested.

Why are you buying from abroad?  will you get chance to go over and view pups and mum at the breeders before buying?   I really would not want to buy a puppy on basis of videos/photos.

It would be much easier to test Mum, I wonder why they haven't.

If she came back as a carrier though the pups would still need to be tested...

my nasty suspicious nature wonders if she has already been tested and they know carrier.......

yes i am going to see mother and all puppies. Father is a well known champ and stud around

we have asked for puppies to be tested as puppies will have 4 months when are allowed to come in the UK according to the Brexit rules. Hopefully, they wont make a new law to bring it in 6 months. Post Rabia vaccination we must wait for 21 days and therefore are 16 weeks in total.

Thank you Anne

Father has  HD breeding value is 76

Mother has got a HD breeding value is 67 on SV databank.

Sorry, I don't know if this is good or bad for the already born puppies.

Seems like all these numbers are very good for a breeding value after translating all from German.

You obviously know little about the rules in Germany under the SV regarding testing for health. All DNA testing goes through the SV, as do all the clinical tests, & is recorded regardless of the outcome.

Tattoos & chips are checked by the vet doing the DNA sampling & since the Martin/Griffiths scandal all dogs are DNA parentally profiled before the puppies are registered. Owner/breeder DNA sampling is NOT acceptable unlike here in the UK.

The DNA test for DM doesn't automatically mean the dog will or will not develop DM, unlike other DNA tests even a dog with 2 copies of the gene may not develop DM

"The disease is inherited in an autosomal recessive fashion with incomplete penetrance and is caused by a mutation (c. 118G>A) in the gene SOD1. Thus, two copies of the SOD1 mutation (DM/DM) confer increased risk for DM."

The KC site states this Since other factors can influence whether a dog becomes affected by this condition, unlike most other DNA tests, this test evaluates a dog’s risk of developing the disease, rather than giving a definitive result.

Anything below 101 is good, the lower the better.

Easy looks like a nice bitch.


Witas looks like a well bred dog with full working qualifications. The SV do not have champions in conformation or working, He may have won competitions, but they do not confer champion status

> Shall I walk away or just wait the results for DM for mother?

If they're going to test the pups then that's fine