Been having a browse on here at the current litters available and breeders breeding working cocker spaniels. I cannot believe the amount that aren’t fully health tested, I’ve also looked at working goldens and it’s the same if not worse.

The other thing that I was surprised about was that I thought champdogs had rules about only allowing litters being advertised where the parents had the minimum requirements needed by kennel club for a litter. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think the only requirement for a cocker is currently only being tested for prcd-PRA ? I know the AB scheme requires to have more but since the website is now a lot harder to navigate there no longer seems to be a clear table of requirements.

There’s at least one litter currently being advertised with only the sire having *some* health tests and that’s it.

Edited to say: the mum has already had one litter previous to this

I think it very sad that in general the working lines do least health testing.

> I think it very sad that in general the working lines do least health testing.

It is! I run in very small circles so the working world I know, I think, is slightly sunnier than what it is like as a whole. I think word of mouth may be better but very disappointed as in what I’ve seen and found so far. I am also perhaps being very picky and looking for cockers that have at least had their hips done too, ideally I’d like them to have their elbows done as well…I think all breeds should really.

The hard thing is it’s very easy for people to say their dog is ‘working’, it only has to look like a working dog and the owner will say a bit about the ‘shoots’ they go on - I’m looking for a breeder where one of the parents enters in field trials because apart from anything else how reliable is someone stating they take their dog on shoots and that they’re good? !

What I don’t understand is why they’re allowed to advertise on here (the litters where only one parent has any health tests done).

Champdogs doesn’t actually insist on health tested dogs I don’t think.

They don't insist on it but if people do test then they can't have awful scores which then defeats the point on testing for some. So if the breed say elbow scores and you have 1 litter with a dog of an elbow of 2 and the ebv is high then you can't advertise but no scores at all is absolutely fine. Doesn't make sense and I have emailed them about this. It's down to the buyer to make their own opinion on it. Surely for me you either make health testing mandatory or not, if not then all results are allowed in.

The thing that seems to be confusing so many puppy buyers is the ability to quote an EBV instead of an actual elbow score on a “health tested” parent in the adverts on Champdogs.

The breeder of my dog worked his and entered field trials said that many owners of working dogs viewed health tests as not worth it they tended to go on the principle that if the dog had something wrong with it then it wouldn’t be able to do a full days work. Well we all know how stoic dogs can be especially the gundog breeds.

The other thing that I was surprised about was that I thought champdogs had rules about only allowing litters being advertised where the parents had the minimum requirements needed by kennel club for a litter. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think the only requirement for a cocker is currently only being tested for prcd-PRA ? I know the AB scheme requires to have more but since the website is now a lot harder to navigate there no longer seems to be a clear table of requirements.

With the exception of Irish Red & White Setter (there may be another more recent one) the KC have zero requirements for health tests for non ABS breeders.

This is the link to what ABS breeders need to test for: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/dog-breeding/the-kennel-club-assured-breeders/breed-specific-requirements-and-recommendations-including-health-screening/
There are 5 requirements for Cocker Spaniels.

It is about time there was two tier registration. That would give everyone a status to aim for - and to stress in advertisements.
All the non-tested and CNRs could still record their stock, but with a Class 2 registration.
Doodles and Poos to continue to use the Activity Register - though there used to be talk of having a Companion Dog Register when we were a club not a business - and the computer system worked.

I have noticed there to a general loss of faith with Champdogs nowadays. It has been the go to site for years to find puppies from health tested parents, now it seems that any recommendation to come here is caveatted with the words ‘check thoroughly to make sure the parents are health tested as some don't bother’. Some are saying don’t even bother looking.
I think whoever runs Champdogs should take note of this as you won’t want Champdogs regarded in the same way as places like Scumtree and the like

> With the exception of Irish Red & White Setter (there may be another more recent one) the KC have zero requirements for health tests for non ABS breeders.

Yes you’re completely right! Am I right in thinking though that a good 5/6 years ago there were requirements for each breed and then further requirements for abs breeders? I may have totally got that wrong, I was just under that impression…I guess to me it never made much difference because we tested for as much as possible to the breed.

> I have noticed there to a general loss of faith with Champdogs nowadays. It has been the go to site for years to find puppies from health tested parents, now it seems that any recommendation to come here is caveatted with the words ‘check thoroughly to make sure the parents are health tested as some don't bother’. Some are saying don’t even bother looking.<br />I think whoever runs Champdogs should take note of this as you won’t want Champdogs regarded in the same way as places like Scumtree and the like

Totally agree - when I looked on here 6 years ago I feel the standard was a lot higher

With the exception of Irish Red & White Setter


Surely the breeds are the Irish Setter & the Irish Red & White setter. Only dogs that are normal for CLAD &, PRA(either be DNA test or inheritance) can be registered with the UK KC. No carriers can be registered now

Yes I just checked and that's correct. I'm sure the red & white was the first breed to have any restrictions though, as far as I remember at least.

It was 2005 for Irish Setters & 2008 for Irish Red & White Setters, both breeds were given a period of grace to use clear to carrier, but only clears could be registered. Red & Whites were required to be VWD clear since 2011.

Sadly 2 CLAD carrier Irish Setters have been imported since then & at least one has been bred from

>they tended to go on the principle that if the dog had something wrong with it then it wouldn’t be able to do a full days work. they tended to go on the principle that if the dog had something wrong with it then it wouldn’t be able to do a full days work.

And many conditions don't become evident until the dog has already been used for breeding - perhaps even it's grandchildren are being used. It's far too late by then.

>Am I right in thinking though that a good 5/6 years ago there were requirements for each breed and then further requirements for abs breeders?

There are many with 'recommendations' but very few breeds have actual 'requirements'.

Exactly the case un my breed.

Of the 3 conditions we have DNA tests for now, 1 is congenital, and uncommon (short leg dwarfism), but the other 2 are late onset eye conditions.

Prcd-PRA often even on eye testing showed no signs until around 4 or 5, and certainly nothing that would be noticed by symptoms until middle age.

Glaucoma most often sudden onset symptoms at 6+.

To complicate matters some genetically affected/at risk of Glaucoma are asymptomatic.