Hello,
We are researching for a dog or puppy but are confused by some puppy listings so wondered if anybody would kindly educate us please.

We’ve come across litters for Cocker Spaniels that have show and working parents, too many for it to be an accidental mating. Some breeders seem to specialise in this mix. We aren’t experts, our basic understanding is that the Working strain is likely to be far more energetic than the Show strain so more suitable for families without a farm. We are an outdoors family but if we’re right we’d prefer a show strain.

If we’re barking up the wrong tree then possibly breeding from the two strains results in a pup that isn’t going to need a 10 acre garden and might suit our family but we don’t know so are nervous.

We’ve noticed a slight difference in looks too, we aren’t bothered about colour but we would like a thick coat but it’s not overly important.

Does anybody know why breeders mix the two, maybe it brings something great to the pup, we know very little about breeding as you can see!

Thanks. Vic

I have a 50/50 and a 75/25 predominantly workers.  They might as well be 100% working so don't assume a mix of strains will give you a more laid back dog or a show coat. You could get any combination of really just depends on the genes that get expressed.  You could get a dog that looks 100% worker but just wants to lay around or an almost show worthy dog with a high prey drive.  Show cockers do sometimes work but workers would never win shows.  All cocker coats need grooming some more than others.  If you think you might find a long show coat too much to maintain and you'll end up getting groomers involved and the dog clipped get a bog standard pet bred worker.  You're not looking for the next field trial champion so brilliant shining pedigree full of champions isn't right for you because you'll likely end up with more than you bargained for.  Health testing at the very least for AMS PRN FN is a must preferably from both parents and that should apply whether they are KC reg or not.

It’s great you are doing lots of research instead of ploughing ahead and dealing with the consequences afterwards.
A number of the gundog breeds have almost split totally into show and working styles of dog and you’re right, the working dog is often a lot more lively. However the requirement isn’t so much for tons of exercise, but also to work the clever brain and this is often where owners go wrong. Tons of exercise makes for a a very fit dog requiring even more exercise to tire it, whereas working the brain tires a dog far more effectively. This means the owner needs to find ways of of exercising the brain rather then just the legs of their pet. However it needs to be said that not all working dogs are like this.
In my breed, golden retrievers, there are a number of breeders who are deliberately breeding working and show lines together in order to bring the breed back to what’s often referred to as the old fashioned golden. In other words how the breed looked and acted many years ago in order to stop the working and show lines looking so different. In goldens the show bred dog has a tendency to be a heavier dog with a profuse coat and likely to be the the lighter colour. The working line is more finer built coated and often a dark gold. This difference has of late become more pronounced. When I bought my first golden over 30 years ago there was hardly, if any, difference between a working or a show dog and I’ve no recollection of it even being mentioned.
My current golden is a mix of show and working lines and is referred to as dual purpose bred, capable of doing a days work at a shoot or doing well in a show ring, her grandsire was a champion dual purpose dog and had won awards from the golden retriever club. It was a deliberate decision to look towards a dual purpose bred dog as we prefer the look and personality of a working bred dog, but were concerned that given our ages we would be unable to cope with a more lively dog. It’s worked out pretty well and she is very like my first golden. She’s clever and has been very easy to train, but also relaxed in the house and has what is termed as a good ‘off’ switch. We’ve had our moments when she was young and it was a matter of finding out what made her tick and working on those in order to stop any behaviour issues. In her case she loves searching for things, so I hide items around the house and ask her to go and find them. It’s basically what goldens were bred to do, retrieve game which is hidden in cover and bring back to the keeper. In our case it was her toys or my shoes she is retrieving.

Working bred cocker spaniels are known for being on the go constantly desperate for a job of work to do whereas the show dog is often calmer. There is also quite a difference in looks and coat. I think of all the gundog breeds cockers are the one that there has become quite a divide in working and show lines. I don’t know if there is a concerted effort by breeders to try to halt the divergence. It would be worth asking breeders why they are using working and show lines into their breeding program. Hopefully someone who breeds cockers will se your post and will be able to answer this better then I can as I am generalising.
My niece and her husband have a working bred cocker and live in an ordinary house, not a farm with acres of land or something. He does have a good off switch in the house, but out on a walk is very active and just doesn’t stop for hardly a second. So long as you are prepared for this level of activity with a working cocker and want to train the dog for activities such as scent work or agility or some form of gundog training (you don’t need to go shooting) then a working cocker will be a happy and fulfilled dog. A dual purpose bred dog could easily be that happy medium between the working and show bred dog if that is what you think you might like. Worth considering maybe, but do speak to the breeders to find out what their reasoning is on deliberately mixing the lines.

From an outsiders perspective there is almost as much difference in the looks of a Show and Working Cocker, as between them and the American Cocker Spaniel (a seperate breed descended from our Cockers).

The differences are most apparent in all 3 in the head.

To me a Working Cocker head is more similar to that of a Working style Springer Spaniel.

In fact at first glance Working Cockers look like smaller multi coloured Working Springers.

Show Cockers have a quite different head, the classic one often found on Chocolate boxes of the past.

Cocker and Working cocker comparison

http://www.powerscourt-cockers.co.uk/advice-pages/show-cockers-vs-working-cockers/

Cocker and Amercan Cocker (US site, so they call the American 'Cocker', and our Cocker 'English Cocker')

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/lifestyle/cocker-spaniel-vs-english-cocker-spaniel/

I have a gundog breed that is known as dual purpose a flat coat retriever . Her grandfather has been  reserve best in show at crufts and many of the other offspring also have done very well in the ring
.however most of them are also working in the field as well
The flat coat has not developed as the cocker has and is still very much a dog that is capable of doing both very well.
Living with them they are energetic but have an off switch . Many say they are not ideal for first time dog owner because of the energy levels but if given mental exercises that can easily be done in a family home they settle pretty well. We arnt a particularly active family especially now the kids have left home so dual purpose suited us very well. They do take longer to mature than many of the gundog breeds but I have never seen that as a problem.
We have a working cocker in the family  and she is on the go all the time and definitely needs a job.  In comparison to the show goldens she lives with she is incredibly
Hyper and not something I could manage . Very sweet and lovable though.

I would say that unless you plan to properly work the dog or compete in something like agility I wouldn't go for anything working lines for a family pet. The show cocker is energetic in itself, yes they have a more profuse coat but if you are prepared to groom the dog, even workers need grooming then I would opt for a showline one. I've seen too many workers in your average pet home, active homes but they have no interest in working the dog and all have behavioural issues in some form.
I know a working breeder who refuses to sell her pups to anyone not working their dogs and doesn't sell to 1st time dog owners either because of how hard they are.

The best way to describe what happens when you mix two different strains, outcross or even crossbreed, is:

It's like making soup. You are tipping the ingredients of one soup into a pan with the ingredients of another soup. What is the soup going to taste like? If there were strong ingredients in one or the other soups, the new soup might taste strongly of that. Will you get a perfect blend of the two soups which enables all the strengths to remain? Or will you get a mess which is neither here nor there....

TBH, unless someone is breeding show with working cockers in a really thoughtful way - thinking about the traits they want to see, choosing the parents carefully, and doing this across many generations to gradually get where they want to be - then it's likely to be an inadvisable breeding to go for. And most breeders are not doing that, they are just sticking them together.

On the positive side it does reduce COIs and dogs can be bred back into being fully working or show whilst hopefully also preserving the new genetic material... but besides that... I'd suggest you stick to a totally show bred litter.

By the way, I've known a lot of cockers that are prone to resource guarding (and cockerpoos). So if you do go for a cocker, be sure always to get a treat and ask for a drop on any items they start to pick up which they are not supposed to have. Don't just take stuff off them... That goes for any dog really but especially a breed where I see this happening a lot.

>Does anybody know why breeders mix the two

Simply .. At one time working cocker breeders would not have added 'show' lines at any cost. They were focused on the working abilities of the dog and didn't care to much about 'looks'. Things have changed to some degree now and the 'work' lines have found that they have bred themselves in to a corner by focusing solely on 'work'. The only way out of this situation and to increase bloodline diversity is to add a bit of 'show' blood. If you approach a breeder who concentrates primarily on 'work' (and explain your situation fully) they will be able to tell you if their line will suit your situation and life style.

I do not know why show Cocker breeders would want to introduce 'work' in to their show lines but would hazard a guess that it either 'perks' the dogs up for the ring or they too wish to broaden their bloodlines.

My first cocker was a show/worker mix. In appearance, he had the flat topped head of a worker with the ear-set and length of a show type. He stood about 18 inches at the shoulder, and his best weight was 21kg (he only reduced to 18kg in his last 6 months). So, well above the breed standard. His coat and feathers were also more show type than worker. His energy levels were huge. In his prime, a two-hour walk with plenty of off-lead was his ideal; half an hour’s rest and he was ready to go again. But he didn’t suffer or become destructive if long walks were not possible. And would do brain-work activities in the house and garden very happily. Even at 14 years old he was an active dog, able to enjoy hour-long walks, but with less running about than in his youth.

My two most recent cockers have both been fully show-type, and to the breed standard, from different breeding (only one common ancestor in five generations). One had a thick coat, very prone to shedding. The other has a finer coat. Their personalities very different: one loved to eat and sleep, and an hour’s walk satisfied him, the other is very “worky” - nose always busy, always seeking and searching. He plays “sniffer dog” at home (much as Jodi has described) finding hidden treats very effectively on wet days or days when long walks aren’t taken.

All three very intelligent, loving, with a great need to be with their people. All also active, and loved swimming. The coats of the show types and my mix, while fuller than worker coat, are actually not difficult to keep in order as long as you keep on top of them with a daily brush and comb through. I don’t clip mine, although some people do, but I do shorten the feathers with scissors, and trim the long hair on the ears.

As with any mix, any assortment of characteristics may be inherited. You may find one but cockers of both types are still much the same at heart. I would agree that a move to reduce exaggerations in either type and bring them back to a single type would be desirable. (I don’t breed, and I know that enthusiasts for each type would heartily disagree, but if I did breed I would want to breed unexaggerated dogs.) I would suggest discussing with the breeders what they aim for in mixing the two strains, and see what they have to say. Do they show and/or work their dogs?

The one thing that is essential though, is that both parents should have undergone all the required health tests.

Thank you for so much help and info, it looks like we have a lot more learning to do, I really appreciate the time people have spent helping here. It’s a huge commitment and no guarantees so we’re trying to start in the best position we can. This could well be the last dog we have (although we hope not!) and at 50 years young we have waited a long time to be in the right position to care for a dog properly.
We’ve noticed that the breeders we’ve contacted who offer Dual Purpose Cockers were all farmers and all in Wales. We’ve contacted 4 and none show dogs but 3 worked them. All litters were in kennels which I suppose is the done thing on farms. All had dogs in their house with their families too. All had KC registration and two of the 4 had council licences. I’m not sure whether the latter is a good thing or not.
We’ve contacted litters from Show strain too, too many to list. They usually state being born in the house and brought up with children and they are usually sold before we’ve found them.

After reading your replies we think a Show strain would be better for us. We do a lot of outdoor activities but feel that a highly energetic dog wouldn’t be suitable. We know a puppy is going to be lively and need consistent training and observing to learn what makes it tick and locate ‘the off switch’ - I love that term, thanks! My wife is really looking forward to the grooming.

I think us looking at Dual Purpose is wrong, Mother Nature may give us more than we want to handle.

Thanks for mentioning the tests, it seems that every breeder we’ve contacted has done AMS, PRA and FN. I will look into what other tests are recommended.

Your replies have pointed out a problem in our strategy, we didn’t ask about breeding plans but none seemed to exist/nothing said. I think we’re looking in the wrong places and should go back to the drawing board.
We’ve been looking for 2 years now, I don’t think we are being fussy by insisting on basics such as must see Mum, be KC registered etc. The only difference Covid has made is the price and closure of many rescue places. Evidently we’re doing something wrong though!

Love the soup analogy! Mixing soup in our kitchen has been grim but I’d better not expand

>We’ve noticed that the breeders we’ve contacted who offer Dual Purpose Cockers were all farmers and all in Wales.

Sorry to say it, but I'd be looking extra closely at any breeder in Wales. Just because it's a puppy-farming hotspot. That's not to say there aren't also great breeders in Wales - but you just need to look extra closely. Especially if they are farmers...

>All litters were in kennels which I suppose is the done thing on farms.

Really, try to find someone who owns just the bitch and has thoughtfully bred her to another dog and will raise pups inside or in an enriched outside environment.

>two of the 4 had council licences. I’m not sure whether the latter is a good thing or not.

It means they breed quantity and it increases the risk of them being puppy farmers...

Yes, I agree. No idea why it took me to write this thread to realise but the penny has dropped. There are loads of them. I don’t know what else to say, it’s sickening :-(

> We’ve contacted litters from Show strain too, too many to list. They usually state being born in the house and brought up with children and they are usually sold before we’ve found them.

Rather than looking for a puppy look for a breeder, when you have found one your happy is responsible ask to go on their waiting list and wait for their next litter whenever that is. Ok it might mean your waiting a while for the next litter but it gives your plenty of time to get to know the breeder and their dogs.