Hi all, new here looking for advice
I have an experienced stud, by experienced, he has sired 8 litters and not missed a bitch yet. Never had any messing about from him.
Recently I'm stumped. Bitch came for stud on Saturday. Flagging like mad, he goes to mount and makes a half arsed attempt. At most he enter her once, one pump and just jumped off. The owner has left the bitch here since and every day he will give her a sniff, lick at the most and walk away. He doesn't care for this bitch at all.
I know what you're thinking, he won't waste his time if he doesn't think she is ready and her flagging doesn't mean she's ready.
However he has never turned his nose up at any bitch, he will even excitedly mount a bitch that's not in season at all. It's so unlike him to not give a damn for a female, especially when she's asking for it constantly.
She is currently on day 14/15. I've advised the owner to take the bitch for a progesterone test tomorrow and see where we are at. But I must admit I'm worrying there's something not right with my boy.. He is happy and normal in himself, nothing about his behaviour has changed other than he doesn't want to know this bitch. Can a stud become picky over a bitch? Could she be giving off a scent that is putting him off?
I feel bad for the owner of the bitch as she really wanted to use him, and doesn't have a back up stud as she had her heart set on mine.
Is there anything I can do in the meantime to see if it's just him? I understand there is a chance the bitch won't be ovulating yet and I hope that's the case but what can I do to check it's definitely not him
Thanks in advance

How old is he?

My mentors and other stud owners I know in my breed (where stud opportunity is low, and 8 litters in a lifetime would be well used,) have tended to find as they reached full maturity (4+) that behaviour you describe is quite usual.

Initial excitement of bitches arrival will tesult in half hearted mounting probably to gauge her reaction, height etc.

Then if not ready they will just check scent, until they finally decide she smells right.

They simply refuse to be hurried.

I have most often found that in the morning they will check her morning urine and if satisfied proceed to mating.

I have also found that many proven bitches show eagerness about 2 days before the male will oblige.

Thanks for your reply!
He is 2 years and 8 months so I hope it's not he's past his time and this is it for him :/

The bitch has been flagging for 3 days now so we are hoping to progesterone test tomorrow morning... I'm just concerned she brings the bitch back and he's still not interested. It's so unlike him.

It's really starting to get me down

I should have also mentioned she is experienced, she's already had two litters

Well he is only just past the 'any port in a storm' age, and is becoming a more sensible adult attitude that doesn't waste his energy until the right time, just what you should want.

As an aside, as he is still pretty young, you have not really had a chance to fully assess the quality of his offspring, as none are mature yet.

He isn't fully mature himself, so removing him from stud work for a year or two would not be a bad idea. Eight litters in 18 months is plenty to be going on with.

He could be siring for another 8 years, so it would be more sensible for the breeds gene pool if he were used on bitches over the next 2 generations rather than have him overused in a short time space.

Good luck with the Progesterone testing.

Has the bitch told him off at all? Or, have any bitches told him off for trying to mount them recently? If so, that could explain things.

Otherwise, studs can indeed just take a dislike to certain bitches. I don't know why...

No she’s not, she’s been very flirty and playful. She’s a lovely girl with a good temperament. I cant recall any significant time he’s been snapped at by any bitch, they’ve all taken really well to him.
I did wonder if maybe he just didn’t like this particular bitch but he’s very playful and affectionate with her. Every now and then he will do the sniff and lick but walk away. Results of the progesterone 11am tomorrow I’m so eager to know!

> Eight litters in 18 months is plenty to be going on with.<br />

More than enough!!!!

I’d say she hasn’t ovulated yet. Be interesting to see what the progesterone test says.

Other than perhaps he's not getting the right smell from her, one of my boys definitely preferred blondes!   Bicolours.   So perhaps dogs do have their preferences too

Well I thought I would let everyone know the results of the test are in, she's at 7.5 / start of the LH surge! So she is coming back on Thursday for another attempt. This would make her ready on day 18.
I must say I'm relieved

Often the boys know best, especially if they are experienced...

Exactly he's just reaching maturity, and is starting to know his business rather than just trying his luck.

So the bitch came yesterday and voila, a successful natural mating completed within half an hour. With a tie for 10 minutes
Do you think a stud knows when a bitch is fertile to the day? If she was out by one day, would he have reacted the same and shown no interest? I find it really interesting just how spot on their judgement is

My mentor who started in 1953 (died 2008) had successful dogs and handled stud work in a traditional and as natural as possible manner.

She liked to have bitches come to stay before they were likely to be ready so that the stud learnt his job.

He would learn when a bitch was not ready when she was and when she had gone over.

They were introduced to each other, supervised allowed to court and play.

Once a successful mating had occured they would stay together under supervision, and only parted when unable to be supervised.

They would be allowed to mate over a 4 to 5 day period, as they would stop once the bitch had gone over.

If the bitch was not staying then a second mating 48 hours after the first, and if for any reason they suspected things may have been a bit early (a young over eager male, or older proven bitch) a 3rd visit 48 hours after second mating to confirm she had gone over.

Her studs rarely missed and learnt not to bother unless the bitch was truly ready.

There's no doubt that an experienced stud dog is worth his weight in gold when it comes to not messing around with a bitch who isn't bang on.  And why it's usually best to try to use an experienced stud dog with a maiden bitch, and vice versa.

Yes he has been a popular with maiden bitches. He lives with my bitch who has recently had a season and for those few days she was fertile he was going absolutely bonkers for her then once it was over he was back to snuggling up with her on the sofa
I believe he knows his job I'm just surprised how accurate to the date they can be. I just wish everyone got their bitch progesterone tested before they come now because I feel bad on the owners travelling such a distance for nothing to happen.

Ignorsnt question from non breeder :)
Is it likley that scent changed through a bitches heat and its that that an allows an experienced stud to know when a bitch is ready ?
Thinking their ability to detect cancers etc by scent wondered if its similar ?

You can make that a requirement before a bitch comes. They have to progesterone test for any future matings.

I might be really bonkers but I sometimes think even I can smell a difference when they are fertile. They are pretty stinky sometimes... I'm not surprised a stud can detect through scent when they are fertile.

Exactly, if a bitch boards with the dog (I consider that is the service I would normally expect to be offered for the price of a puppy), then dog and bitch will be comfortable with each other.

Remember in nature the pair would be a bonded couple and would mate over about a week, at the earliest from the lh surge (this would clear old cells), and then fresh sperm would be deposited and topped up until the bitch went over.

In a breed like mine where males get very few mating opportunities, sometimes years, it can be an advantage to get a chance to clear the tubes, and hone their technique.

I have an experienced stud who is accurate to the minute that girls are ready.  He can be uninterested in them one minute then 5 minutes later he'll mate them.  If they are not exactly ready, he will not waste his energy.  He has saved me a fortune in progesterone testing if I am using an outside stud and has been 100% accurate every time.