I am curious to know if you guys are using muzzle for your GS as it seems safe for other dogs preventing barking etc.

Which one is the best one and how can I ever imagine walking safely a GS without a muzzle?

I am a  bit confused. I assume u mean a German shepherd ?
I've never muzzled either of mine no need unless i had felt there was  an issue that needed controlling that way .
I wouldn't do it as a matter of course .
Preventing barking sounds like its more of a training issue that needs exploring .
Why do u feel u could never walk your gsd without one ? Would u do that with any breed or is there a particular reason
It is however useful to muzzle train a dog just incase it is ever needed .
The basker ville basket muzzle is pretty good but u need to use one that is big enough and open so the dog can pant and drink and u can poke treats in the side .

chirag Patel has some good videos on training for muzzles

You NEVER muzzle a dog to stop barking. if something round the dogs mouth is restrictive enough to stop barking then it is also likely to stop breathing and cause severe distress or even death of dog.   I have seen such things advertised on very dubious  foreign sites but it is cruel and I think would be classed as illegal in the UK.

you train your dog so as you can walk it without trouble, a well trained dog is not an issue .

I've got very close friends who have owned GSDs for over 50 years, the only time any of their dogs have worn muzzles is when they were required to by local laws in non UK countries.

They have real working GSDs(not just ones that do Competitive activities), the secret is to train the dog, not just rely on aids like muzzles & especially not the type that prevents a dog barking, which TBH should be banned.

Their dogs are trained to bark on command & also to be silent, their dogs bark naturally when they feel like barking, dogs bark it's part of normal dog behaviour

Why do you think your GSD will need to be muzzled, do you expect him/her to attack /bark at other dogs/people all the time? Are you intending to keep your dog muzzled 24/7?

"how can I ever imagine walking safely a GS without a muzzle"

If you suggesting German Shepherds ? then this breed is extremely reliable in the right hands.

They can be trained extremely well, their that reliable that they (as a breed) can even be trained to be guild dogs (awesome)

No I don't want this for my dog as he will go for training with everyone in my house.

Just witnessed an encounter in a park between a rotwailer and a GS and all family went crazy asking me how to prevent these to happen.

I was only curious as I m learning and reading about that as I want my dog to behave and be sociable, not reacting to people or other dogs in a  red type behavior manner. I really wish to be able to walk with him without muzzle regardless how imposing a black  German shepherd might appear.

My breeder will initiate the training as per mandatory requirements to keep a dog 8 weeks with mother plus another 7 weeks in total post vaccination.

Learning and reading about

Do you walk onlywith a lead or you let him without when confident?

Don't shoot I m only asking you

Mine were off lead when it was safe for them.  Ie no roads or anything.lots of free running and playing

If u get  gsd from a decent breeder temperament is something they should be considering very strongly
We have had 5 in our family over the years and all run free with other dogs in the fields and barks and none need muzzles .
All very gentle dogs who were family pets.  They are a breed that loves its family and are usually pretty easily trained by reward based methods and not harsh handling .
Seeing a dog fight even its just handbags at dawn can be pretty frightening but any dog could get into a situation u just happened to see  to big breeds one of which was the breed you want .
Please don't assume that means your dog will get into fights its very unlikely

Thanks for your answer.

Definitely, the breed I want as later on whilst I was walking I succeded to play with a GS puppy of 4 months who came with his owner to play.

My conclusion is that training is a must and continue work with him.

Training is a must with any breed . Just make sure u get a reward based trainer no shouting or aggressive trsing
A lot of training is about training the owner anyway
They are a wonderful breed.

Training in a class situation to alliw controlled interaction with other people is very important especially right through adolescence.

Think how teenage/young men can behave around each other trying to look tough.

I did wonder if perhaps you meant a Head Collar/Halter when you said Muzzle?

This is like a Bridle on a Horse, gives the handler control of the head, and acts like 'power steering'.

Can be a very useful safety back up tool for weaker/smaller handlers.

I have used them for walking multiple dogs, very useful if a fox or cat appear unexpectedly, and to stop them picking up left over take-aways and chewing gum.

I always explain that most dogs are puppies until 2 years of age, so you need to put in 2 years of consistent training, and then continue with more advanced pursuits if you wish.

Sounds to me that the OP does mean a muzzle as he is from Romania(or appears to be) where GSDs are kept guard dogs & protection dogs. I obviously don't know why he described  black GSDs as imposing, unless he has found the breeder, who sole aim is to produce personal protection dogs & breeds mainly dark grey dogs & blacks, his website has quite worrying photos.

I thought the same ann . It would give him different attitudes to ours most likley . I do hope he isn't think black for the way you suggest.
As I said before the gsd in my picture here is my whispa who was black as one of a mixed coloured litter . Tbh same as any other gsd except people occasionally mistook him for a bsd

Cultural differences in expectations and attitudes to dog keeping and purposes.

Holidaying in Eastern Europe Mid 70's - Mid 80's the expectation was that dogs would bite, and in fact muzxling was required on Public Transport.

German Shepherds were kept to guard property.and expected to bite anyone who wasn't family.

I will never forget in 1976 travelling to Poland with Caravan.

We stopped at a smallholding and asked to park up for the night.

In the morning going to the pump for wayer my dad passed the chained GSD, and made a fuss of him, I came over and did likewise (I was 12).

The owners came out and were horrified that we had 'ruined' their dog!!!

Is it a requirement by law in some European countries that at least some breeds are muzzled by law ?
I remember a lady I met with a lovely rottie who took him on holiday very frequently to either France or Germany .She said he had to be muzzled the whole time when outside . This would have been within the last 10 years

You naughty person Brainless ruining their dog :)

In France certain breeds are required to be insured, on lead and muzzled in public along with a test of owners ability to control dog.  Rotties are included in that list.

That would be it then weimed

> I have seen such things advertised on very dubious  foreign sites but it is cruel and I think would be classed as illegal in the UK.

Given that fabric muzzles are completely legal but do as you describe and are as dangerous for the same reasons, I doubt an anti-barking muzzle would be illegal.

There are number of things for dogs that would be better if made illegal and can't be sold

Certainly certain breeds were/are required to be muzzled in Ireland.
https://www.thejournal.ie/restricted-dog-breed-3541690-Aug2017/

I certainly remember that in some German regions they brought in laws requiring all dogs over 20kg to be muzzled.

https://www.dog-muzzles-store.co.uk/rules-for-walking-dogs-in-public-in-europe-and-other-countries-ezp-187.html

Both were I think enacted when Breed Specific legislation and the DDA were very much to the fore.

https://www.travelnuity.com/dog-muzzle-for-travel/

I have seen many GS with e collars and owners using bip or vibration only, is it necessary or you should use only good regular training?

My second thought and question is about raw food and bones versus non raw. What is best and more suitable for a GS puppy 4 or 5 months?

Thank you for your answers

I have seen many GS with e collars and owners using bip or vibration only,


Where have you seen this? In the UK? With the breeder you have found?

No dog needs an E collar, if you think they are OK, try one on yourself, being a doctor, what effect do you think applying an electrical "stimulus" above the larynx will have??

They are banned in Wales now & will eventually be banned in the UK.

I am being to think, no matter what advice you are given you will go down the route of using whatever means you can to avoid force free training & I pity any innocent dog that ends up with you.

As to feeding I have raw fed my dogs since I first owned one over 50 years ago, it is the natural diet for domestic dogs & kibble was developed for the convenience of owners

> I have seen many GS with e collars and owners using bip or vibration only, is it necessary or you should use only good regular training?

It is never necessary to use an e collar, they are used by lazy trainers as quick fixes, which often don't work.

Given your questions here I really don't think you should be looking to get a GSD, based on your family maybe being nervous of one and the fact that they are not easy. It's great that you're doing research, but your research should also tell you that shepherds are not ideal first dogs. They are wonderful dogs if you get it right from the start, and can put the time and effort in to training and socialisation. It sounds like you have a time consuming job, I might look towards a breed that requires less intensive work in the first year, it's very easy to ruin a shepherd.

I love shepherds, I had two many years ago but I wouldn't have one now because I simply don't have the time to put into a young gsd, I'm happy raising silkens into civilised members of society, they require much less effort

Just as an aside, we call them german shepherds, shepherds or GSDs here, when you write GS I think Giant Schnauzer for some reason

Or german spitz  :)  that's was why at the beginning I had to qualify which breed

Which ever breed u get it needs to be u and your family who train in a force free manner  .not sending the dog away or having someone else do the traing
. No  e collars or other forceful methods.
Good training classes .look up apdt for  good reward based training body .there are others.
Breeders should be breeding for health and temperament not colour or money. by health we mean having done all the necessary tests for the breed not just vet checks .and on both dam and sire . Preferably breeding for a good reason money is not a good reason .showing or working for example
Feeding most people start off woth whatever the breeder has raised the pup on after that if u wish to change look at the website allaboutdog food .personnaly I would recommend raw but its got to suit the dig and you.
That applies to any breed of course

> My second thought and question is about raw food and bones versus non raw. What is best and more suitable for a GS puppy 4 or 5 months?

You'll get as many people telling you raw is best as you will telling you that kibble is best, though often raw feeders are more vocal. Go with whatever your breeder is feeding initially then change over slowly to whatever suits your dog. I've fed raw for decades but 2 of my current gang simply will not eat raw meat so I now use a good quality grain free kibble.

Raw bones are great for keeping any dogs teeth clean, and good for teething puppies. Of course I assume pup will live in the house and if you have children you may not want a raw meaty bone lying around on your carpets, you can give it outside in the garden for an hour or so and pop it back in the freezer for another day.

Just asking Ann not shooting, based on what I m seeing.

So GSD then

I was talking about voice and vibrating collar not shock collar.

I have seen one wh. o remotely bipped and used owner voice to amplify.

If you look at the specs you can try on yourself to see what a vibrating mobile means.

I have seen this in a large park in UK whilst walking hence my question.

Where are you seeing all these GSDs wearing ecollars that are being used?

Being a doctor I would expect you would not use pain on an animal to instill obedience.

You haven't answered my questions why would you even enquiry about using an E collar to train a puppy, muzzling a dog to prevent being bitten? Sounds to me you are looking for a protection dog not a pet

Finally a sensible answer who is not jumping on me after asking a question about GSD, let's put it Wright now

In a park next to my house

I don't need protection Ann I m only asking and reading researching about the breed before going ahead with German breeder.

How do you know they are not E collars being used to shock all these GSDs you are seeing ? You would have to be very close to a dog wearing an E collar to hear the"vibration" & the "blip" is heard when the shock is given. Never seen an E collar that that transmits the users voice live

The well known fake dog trainer Milan uses shock collars to back up his training as do several"trainers"in UK for a quick fix(more in hunting dogs than GSDs)

Sorry but your questions & "answers" only increase my fear for any puppy you own.

> when you write GS I think Giant Schnauzer for some reason

And I, German Spitz

Which one is the best one and how can I ever imagine walking safely a GS without a muzzle?


Very odd question, so you don't believe you can walk a GSD safely without a muzzle? In case it bites you, someone else or another dog?

So for France I have to put a muzzle even if he is fully trained and obedient dog?

Was with a pit bull in Park and one GSD. The remote was next to me and the owner used voice to bring them back.

Ann R Smith I m here to ask read and understand.

Good answers and very good read

In France only on some public transport & is ALL large dogs not just GSDs

GSDs have to be muzzled in Ireland(not Northern Ireland)

In UK a pit bull or "type" has to be muzzled & on a lead, so how could you see one fighting with a GSD?

Re GSD as guide dogs.

Yes. A friend of mine in Hungary is blind ( also pianist ) and her guide dog is a GSD.

Re dogs on public transport in France.

Huh ! I had a dreadful experience years ago trying to get from one station in Paris to another with two dogs. I was working in Budapest in those days but also sort of living in Normandy France. It was a couple of days before Xmas and I'd already had a very difficult overnight train journey from Budapest - train broke down/ detrained onto freezing platform at Strasbourg and then loaded onto a commuter train and forced to sit on the floor next to the toilets as my dogs were not welcome in the carriage. This despite the very expensive first class ticket that I'd had to buy in order to have a whole sleeping compartment to myself . This was obligatory because of the dogs -they also had to pay a half fare each. No taxi would take me from Gare  L'est to St Lazaire because of the dogs, I was forbidden to enter the metro with them and no bus would take me either. I could see us being stranded forever in Paris. And we were exhausted. I was reduced to going onto the ground at a bus stop and begging a driver to take us . He did !  He took pity on the weary bag/dog lady. There is more to this story involving a train strike at St Lazaire and some very unpleasant fellow passengers on the train to Bayeux and a house flooded and filthy on arrival. I wrote it up in Observer 'My Crap Holiday' column. They didn't publish all the best bits !
I was shocked by my treatment in Paris In Budapest I was regularly travelling on buses, trams and metro with the dogs, albeit muzzled ( loosely) and with a child ticket.

Because not everyone is so attentive putting a lead for a pit bull. There are many owners who don't not follow the outdoor rule.

Have seen this and it is really hard, impossible I would say when is red type behaviour, to control such aggressive breed like pitbull and rotwailer.

Seems like you are living in an idealistic world where everyone is following everything

OK, I think you are a tad inexperienced with dogs.  Large guarding type breeds are not automatically aggressive.  They are no more aggressive then a fiesty terrier and a lot more trainable.  They are powerful so cannot be left to raise themselves or you could end up with dangerous incidents because they are powerful and will naturally guard owners. They aren't nasty by nature.  They can be nasty if owner hasn't bothered training . I would not recommend to a first time owner as being powerful and guards you do need experience to get the training right.

Good owners buy powerful guard breeds like rotties/GS etc and from day one train them with kind no force reward based training,  The only equipment required is a collar, lead, treats. and a good training class to teach your puppy to be nicely socialised with other dogs and people.   A well bred well trained guard breed does not have 'red type' behaviour as it is obedient and under control by owners voice.

yes there are idiots in parks everywhere who cannot learn how to train/control their dog but that is not something to aspire to or copy!

Excellent post weimed

In this country few dogs are required to be muzzled by law. Something that may seem odd if you arnt familiar with it .neither do we belive in the main that is necessary. As for e collars and other similar collars hopefully the whole of the UK will follow Wales and Scotland lead and ban them completely .anything that uses pain at any level is wrong and harmful in the long term
Infact the red type behaviour that u alluded to is uncommon and if a dog was muzzled is not going to stop another dog attacking it it also can't defend itself  .as for ecollars etc a dog that is fighting will forget anything else so those would be useless anyway and possibbly drive the dog to be more intent on attacking .
If u think many working dogs are gsds .the police for example and they arnt aggressive  but trained ,very well trained for their job . If theu attacked everything on sight they couldn't do their job 
U need to find a breeder who breeds good healthy dogs that are suitable as pets.not high drive which u could find  hard to meet the dogs mental and physical needs . Only u know what time and effort your family can have for the dog. Puppies in particularly arnt much different to have a human child .high maintenance:)
To get your confidence with a dog and training you can always find secure dog fields to rent .this let's your dog have lovely off lead play with noone else but u and your family
It is not going to be a pleasant experience owning a dog you are feel you need to muzzle and keep on lead for fear it may attack / but someone .
Watch most dogs around you of all breeds most are off lead andrarley do u see a muzzled dog and they play happily  .

just for you knowledge , pit bulls are a banned breed in this country .Most of the dogs you see are mixed breed staffy types not PB which is why so many are not on leads / muzzles they dont have to be and are very safe dogs.
Yes some will not obey the law but that is the same with all our laws. Just think of the number carrying knives and similar. Its against the law but for some that doesn't make any difference  u

Thanks for answer

What don't you understand, Pitbulls or"typed"dogs have by law to be muzzled & on a lead  with a person over 16 in public, not a case of having the lead put back on, it cannot be taken off. The London boroughs employ dog warden's whose sole task is to patrol the streets & parks to find put bull or typed dogs & impose the Law, one of these DW's illegally ceased a chocolate lad as a"typed" dog & it took months for the owner to get their dog back.

"Red type behaviour"???? Hm you obviously follow the Milan as that is how he describes do called aggression in dogs.

I certainly do not live in perfect cloud cuckoo land, I've had my dogs attacked by out of control dogs in public, never a GSD or a Rottweiler oddly enough, mainly black or chocolate labs, whose owners shout "they only want to play" as their dog pins my dog to the ground

You know nothing about Pits or Rottweilers neither are born aggressive, Rotties can be real wimps, a friend of mine's was terrified of small dogs after being attacked by a couple of small Terriers as a pup, poor dog would go to pieces at the sight of lookalikes