Good day lovely people and happy 2021 (we hope!)

I'm looking into insurance for when the 5 weeks KC puppy ever runs out, I'm sure this could potentially turn into a polarising thread but I'd appreciate and listen to all comments. I have narrowed down my list to two providers and wanted to know what everyones experience is cost wise when faced with a vet bill on average.
I'm not sure whether to opt for £4K yearly limit or go for £2K... excess is the same on each except for the 4K which requires a further 30% on top. Now i appreciate that this is a "how long is a piece of string" type question but on balance, how expensive are vet fees for minor sugary in general? ie: a broken leg, overnight stay with antibiotics, a few stitches etc etc

The hound isn't a working dog but more of a house dog with weekend walks wherever we go so essentially not a working farm or hunting dog.

I'm looking at £13 versus £15 per month differential.

Many Thanks as always

After many years of using different companies I prefer pet plan .it .may be slightly dearer  but have found their claims to be paid out much better with no quibbles.also claims dont put up your premiums as some do . Another point for pet plan is as the animal gets older they don't load until 10 often with others its 8 .I know that seems ridiculous now but time passes very fast and once u have a ckaim changing companies can be tricky
I usually go for 6k or near to as having found this amount covers most things I've experienced. From rta to cancer treatment and more recently cardiac and renal issues .
Make sure any policy is lifetime so once claimed u are covered year on year . I have also used vip4u pet insurance brokers who I have found very helpful .I know others have differing opinions on them .
As u said I am sure this thread will be full of many alternative thoughts

I disagree.   I went with Pet Plan and that was the biggest mistake I have ever made regarding insurance. I have nothing to compare it with but it is too expensive.  I agree have a lifetime plan at least.  I have had numerous dogs over the years and never had then insured until my current one.  I would suggest opening a savings account just for the dog and make sure you make a standing order from you to you.  During lockdown I added up all I had paid pet plan and all claims they had disallowed and I would now be quids in.  Hope this makes sense.

I’ve used Direct Line in the past but decided to swap to PetPlan this time. I like them as they are a dog insurance company as opposed to insurance for other things as well. At the time I was selecting an insurance was when one of the companies decided out of the blue to stop pet insurance suddenly leaving their customers with no insurance and difficulties in finding a suitable insurance prepared to take on older dogs with pre existing conditions without excluding them all. Hence why I went for a renowned dog insurance company.

I do like them, there’s not been any problems paying for any claims and my vet is prepared to deal with them direct, so I just sign the insurance form and leave them to it, no money exchanges hands between me and the vet. This did not happen with DL

Make sure you go for a lifetime insurance, not the annual type so that should your dog have an ongoing condition it will be paid for for many years if needs be. Otherwise you may well find the condition is excluded on the annual type upon renewal.

In that respect Agria who do the Kennel Club insurance are the dame, they are/were a Scandinavian company and one of the only onrs that cover breeding risks too.

Personally I don't Insure.

I put the money by.

In my experience with al my dogs bred by me from fully.health tested stock I rarely have had anthing but minor unclaimable issues until well into veteran years, and then often ptemiums and excesses become huge.

My most recent large bill last January ead £960 to have 12 teeth out for a 13 year old.

I generally advise people Insure the first year, as pups are more accident prone, and hopefully any ongoing conditions would manifest by then.

After that I'd put the premiums in a dedicated savings account, especially if you have multiple dogs.

You will mostly need it in old age.

I am with Direct Line and have been for many years now. We have claimed thousands from them, including MRI and spinal surgery at Fitzpatricks referrals. They have always paid up even when they actually could have found reasons not to. (Example - I took a dog to the vet at 7yo for a slab tooth fracture and vet advised we didn't need to act immediately but could monitor it. 3 years later we'd moved house and went to a different vet who wanted to remove it. The insurance covered it, even though it was an annual policy and they could have looked back at the records and said that we first went to the vet with it years ago. Several other examples like that as well.)

I always look at PetPlan because they have great customer service and also pay up willingly, but I just find them so expensive by comparison - especially as the dog ages, the policy gets so unaffordable you end up cancelling it just when you most need it.

I always shop around and get quotes from various providers but come back to Direct Line again and again. And I can't afford their Advanced policy through the lifetime of the dog, so I usually just get it for the first 2 years of a dog's life and then switch to Essential. So if money is tight get the lifetime coverage at least for the first few years. Due to economising this time round, I got Essential from the start and of course our dog now has allergies which will probably need lifelong treatment which we'll have to cover after this year. Still, it is covering the bulk of the expense...

Their online claims system is really easy - you just fill in a form on their website and they contact the vet directly and the vet completes the form and returns to them, so it's just as easy as PetPlan now.

Super interesting feedback so far. It's giving me food for thought... anyone using 4paws?

Just a point with pet plan to cover any oral.condotions that may arise u are required to have a annual oral check and follow advise from your vet. That shouldn't mean an annual scale and polish as the vet should not be expecting  that.
Ive recently had my elderly cat have a dental and vet said it was gingervitus and pet plan paid for the whole amount no quibble.
They have also paid for stem cell therapy for the same cat which is still in its infancy especially for cats . So I cant complain .
Her premium is around £30 pm at 17 .cats seem to be cheaper .where as brooke at 10 nearly is £100 pm but the trouble she gets into its still worth it ,that excludes her skin . £300 pm animal friends wanted when we got into claims for allergies   that was more than what her annual immunotherapy therapy costs at around £350 pm

Well first off, we had insurance on our first hound - but that was back in 1972.   I have no idea how the company (the name of which I can't remember) made any money because what we paid was peanuts.  As our numbers increased and as the main cost with our vet for us was for our breeding activities which wasn't covered by insurance, we didn't take any.   And it's remained the same ever since.   When eventually down to two, I took quotes and nearly died.  Hells bells, I didn't want to BUY the companies.

Bottom line - it's totally up to the individual but what finishes it for me is the excess.  Of course insurance companies pitch that at the average cost of an uncomplicated vet visit, so you end up paying the excess AND the monthly premium.    I prefer to pay my vet (and the one we had back up East allowed stage payments if we occasionally hit a rough patch) as and when.  Lately (although it may not last with no interest coming in to speak of) we have had enough in Savings to cover emergencies and I prefer that rather than line the pockets of insurance companies.

For the record, my late brother in law, who did his research into such matters, used More Than.

Brainless:> Agria who do the Kennel Club insurance.

They are indeed one of the few who Insure Breeder's Dogs however, they are extremely expensive and do not offer a 'life time' option.
I do promote them to my New Owners when the 5 week Insurance I provide ends but advise a 12 month policy and then shop around.

Putting the money aside for annual Vet Bills is your own 'Insurance' and let's not forget that most Vets ask if you are Insured with a
view to charging as much as possible to your account which in turn can affect YOUR premiums and is something a Vet wouldn't
consider doing if you have been a Client, paying their own bills and supporting THEM for many years.

I do understand a previous poster who required Noel Fitzpatrick's expertise and Insurance covered the costs but it would be like sending
a human to a Harley Street specialist and a very expensive option beyond the affordability of most IMO

Iv used Fitzpatrick as they were one of the very few who offered the treatment  that the animal required  Also my insurance doesn't increase premiums because of claims. It even declares it in the policy.

In my case putting money aside would have never covered the vets cost we have incurred. 6k for treatment for cancer in one year for example .  None of our vets bills which have been due to preventable conditions . More like bad luck

I am am never sure about the frequent claims that vets increase premiums to those who are insured , it is often said but may well be an urban myth that gets passed around to suit a situation

furriefriends:> Iv used Fitzpatrick as they were one of the very few who offered the treatment  that the animal required.

Well done for finding an Insurance Company who covered such specialist treatment.  Would be great if you let the OP which
one it was.

As a Breeder I have very few affordable Insurance Companies available to me so the responsible thing to do is have a medical
fund.

> I am am never sure about the frequent claims that vets increase premiums to those who are insured , it is often said but may well be an urban myth that gets passed around to suit a situation

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  One of the first questions a Vet will ask the owner is whether they have their pet Inusred or not.

5 years ago I had one of my first dogs attacked by one of our cattle and he suffered a life threatening lesion to his back leg - Insurance cost £1200ish
2 years ago I had one of my gundogs receive a life threatening lesion to her front leg after being caught on a barbed wire fence - Own cost £848.27
(have invoice in front of me now)

I have no one within the Veterinary Profession to confirm this, just my own experience.

I have told the op in earlier posts but as in everything we can only speak with the experience we have. Most good companies will cover such things. In this case it was stem cell therapy . Its often about reading and understanding small print .not always easy
Yes vets do ask about insurance but that doesn't prove we are paying a premium if u answer yes 
It maybe the case it may not be or it could be vet specific.
Its hard to do a fair test.ive had things done that I've claimed for and things I haven't but u don't have that comparative discussion with your vet usually

Yes as a breeder you do have limitations as to which companies will insure u . I am not and a fund doesn't work for me but its upto the individual to decide based in their own risk assessment
I dont understand how the costs u have sustained proves one way or another that the vet would increase the cost if u had been insured  was the injury identical and was the treatment identical.   As I said u may well be right but its really hard to know
yes vet treatment can run into thousands as ours could if we didn't have the nhs
Private human medicine certainly makes you realise how lucky we are

furriefriends:> I have told the op in earlier posts.
That's brilliant, I wasn't aware.

As in everything we can only speak with the experience we have.
Yes agree, that's why I shared my experience with the Forum.

> u don't have that comparative discussion with your vet usually

Well I'm sure your Vet wouldn't want to - that would be a minefield especially in a highly emotional situation when your pet is poorly.

> I dont understand how the costs u have sustained proves one way or another that the vet would increase the cost if u had been insured

Two differnet dogs with the same injury three years apart and my current Vet on both occassions. I was charged more for the one three years
previously as an Insured Owner and charged almost 25% less as an individual client with the second. (the most recent)

You are right furriefriends - we are so lucky with our NHS.

Sounds like u need to have a word with your dogs to be more careful, with how the mice about lol

furriefriends: > Sounds like u need to have a word with your dogs to be more careful, with how the mice about lol

What?  OK.... nothing more to add.

They move not the mice btw
Dyslexic fingers again !

I went with PetPlan which has been fine so far, the price isn’t too bad (I did compare with about a million other companies). Unfortunately as River has patella luxation I won’t be able to change now as no one else will cover that as a preexisting condition, and he’s going to need operations. Goodness knows what my premiums will be next time, but it’s definitely more than paid for itself in the last 16 months since we got him.

Also my vet has only ever asked about insurance if something expensive happened. If you say no, that’s when they start to warn you how much it’s likely to cost so you can decide whether to go ahead or look for alternatives, I guess.

My rabbits aren’t insured. I have Netherland dwarfs and a lionhead cross - breeds that are very prone to dental problems due to their brachycephalic skulls - and no company will cover dental treatments for rabbits. The nethies are 6 this year and apart from neutering, vaccinations, one sore eye and a couple of episodes of GI stasis unrelated to teeth, every vet visit has been for dentals.

> I generally advise people Insure the first year, as pups are more accident prone, and hopefully any ongoing conditions would manifest by then.

This is what I do with mine, as youngsters they're often running into things and eating things they shouldn't, but as adults are rarely, if ever, at the vets so insurance would be a waste of money.

Since I have cancelled my insurance and the vet knows,  the cost of treatment has become less.   The actual cost to the vet is £36 per visit.  I have cut that down now by going less often.  If a could change vets I would do.

I use bought by many as you get free calls with vets and this has been invaluable with my youngest bitch as she gets herself into all sorts of trouble eating stuff, I can give myself the reassurance of a quick chat without the expense of a consultation unless necessary

Urban myth re upping charges or not, whenever we have gone to a new vet, we have always been asked whether ours are insured or not.   Why ask if it didn't have some bearing on charges I wonder?

>Why ask if it didn't have some bearing on charges I wonder?

I think because it affects the way the vet talks to you about treatments and choices that may need to be made. When my dog needed a £3K MRI and a £3K surgery at a specialist, we didn't even need to talk about the cost or money - we could focus only on what was best clinically for the dog. The vet didn't need to tiptoe around suggesting the treatment or use ever-increasing amounts of cheap painkillers for longer in fear that we wouldn't be able to afford it. The vet knew that whatever was best for the dog, would be what they could recommend and what we would be able to do.

I think you are right 1234. If they know you are insured they can just get on with what needs to be done. If you aren’t they then have to ask the question of how much treatment can you afford.

£4k should be the absolute minimum, assuming it's per condition and not a total for each year. £2k will go nowhere and will easily be used up in one go if your dog needed x-rays and treatment following an accident, or allergy investigation and treatment. And make sure it's a lifetime policy, where ongoing conditions are covered and not excluded after the first year.

> <br />I think because it affects the way the vet talks to you about treatments and choices that may need to be made.

If that's so, I think it's sad!   My current vets know that our hounds were/are not insured but I know they discuss the options re treatment, regardless.   My vets don't need to tiptoe - they tell it as it is.   Insured or not, they don't just assume what I'm prepared to pay, or not, for whatever is needed (via my Savings).   They also know that if I prefer to buy online, they expect to have to give me a prescription.

It works both ways too - if a vet knows the animal is insured, the cynic in me suggests he might (I say might because it may not be so) be inclined to up his charges which ultimately forces insurance companies to up their premiums.    With a non-insured animal, maybe their charges are more appropriate!!   It was the case with a Lab my nephew and his family bought.  That poor dog was put through surgery on both hips and an elbow at barely 8 months.   The dog was insured.   And actually the surgery wasn't 100% successful either with the dog 'on three legs' for most of his short life.   I definitely got the impression that had he not been insured, the Practice just might have held off a while before doing all that surgery.............?

Good stuff all round. Keep it coming if so inclined. Much appreciated.

I would suspect with the dog having major surgery so young it may have been because the policy it was on was only a one year policy and if they didn't do it quick would run out of policy.  Take out a lifetime policy then you do not have this issue of a time limit on a condition .  Mine's on boughtbymany.  had to claim when had only had her 2 weeks and they paid up without quibble.

MamaBas:> <br />It works both ways too - if a vet knows the animal is insured, the cynic in me suggests he might (I say might because it may not be so)

Yip, it's an if, but, maybe situation and if not a personal experience probably best to have an open mind, however we are dealing with human principles which
can be swayed when it comes to the old Pounds, Shillings & Pence.

I believe the question whether to Insure or not to Insure is as open to debate as which Insurer you should go with.  Excuse the pun but maybe best to
"Go Compare"! and decide if the premiums are affordable or you can trust that you will start your own medical fund.

> Excuse the pun but maybe best to<br />"Go Compare"! and decide if the premiums are affordable or you can trust that you will start your own medical fund.

This is actually what I do/did. Love a bit of go compare for all of my insurances

masajackrussell:  > <br />This is actually what I do/did. Love a bit of go compare for all of my insurances

There we go - always a solution!

I’m watching my friend struggle with managing diabetes in his 7 year old dog. He’s insured for £4,000 per year per condition. The trouble here is that many conditions come under Diabetes and the £4000 is spent quickly. If I was given the choice of double the cover for £2.00 a month difference I would pay it. After watching my friend’s situation I would never be without pet insurance if given the choice.

Victoriah: > After watching my friend’s situation I would never be without pet insurance if given the choice.

You are so right in my book Vicoriah.  I have working Labs & CS and you cannot insure them without a 2nd Mortgage.  I have a savings fund with a DD every month.  It's called my 'medical fund'.  I am very aware how difficult it is to cover every eventuality (even if you could afford the Insurance - in my case in excess of £600 per month) but there has always been huge debate about this particular issue.  Quite a minefield X

I agree Hoggie. If we could cover all eventualities at a reasonable cost we all would. Accidents, bad luck seem to happen the day after the warranty expires or the day we forgot to re-new the plan! I think it’s called s*d’s law!

I can see why you’d prefer to DD £600 a month to yourself; that builds a ‘medical fund’ very quickly!

We had dreadful dental problems with our rabbit, we were insured accidentally and I’m so glad we were! I am hoping we’ll have a new member to insure this year and as much as I dis-like paying insurance I will. I agree with your earlier posts regarding vets being very interested in our insurance arrangements. I think it’s an open ticket to invoice.

Victoriah:> I think it’s an open ticket to invoice.

Oh sorry Victoriah.  My post was misleading re how much I pay into my medical fund every month - it is only £200.  But yes. Vet's 'in my experience' rub their hands together when you answer 'yes' to being Insured.  I feel very lucky that my Vet of 5 years is very upfront but he is an employee and not a partner so everything has to be measured and questioned.  Anyway, enough of the negative! It's very much personal choice and I'm sure the majority make an informed decision

Just an aside re Rabbits teeth.

They grow continuously like claws and can be trimmed yourself if misaligned ( common in dwarfs and Dwarf lops).

Correctly aligned they naturally wear away like claws would on hard ground.

We gave up our pet insurance after 7 years and opened up a bank account and the money we  paid in each month with a little extra soon amounted to quite a bit. I kept the happy pet club insurance as that saved on our dogs flea, tick and yearly injection and his check ups. We are telling you  this as we paid over £50 a month for seven years and never made a claim. Our dog recently passed away the money we saved paid for all his vet bills etc. we still have quite a bit left over in the account which will hopefully go to the next dog we have. We won't be taking out any pet insurance it's a con as you have to pay so much up front. It will only be the happy pet club and the doggie account for us.

> They grow continuously like claws and can be trimmed yourself if misaligned ( common in dwarfs and Dwarf lops).

Only if it’s the incisors are the problem. With my two Netherland Dwarfs the malocclusion affects the molars and they need to be ground down under general anaesthetic. The incisors have always been perfect, and my last Nethy was the same.

If you’re trimming the incisors yourself you have to know what you’re doing, it’s easy to crack a tooth or cut too much off. I don’t think I’d risk it myself, especially as my boys are tiny and they wouldn’t hold still. My girl (lionhead lop cross) is twice the size and much calmer but I wouldn’t be brave enough with her either!

Ah, I used to breed and show bunnies.

Fortunately malocclusion was rare in my breed, but I was shown how to do it at a lecture, and did it for my sister's dwarf lop.

> Ah, I used to breed and show bunnies.

I remember, I hope I didn’t sound like I was implying you don’t know what you’re doing! It was a general thing really.

I’ve had four nethies and three of them have had malocclusion. It’s the brachycephalic face. Such a shame because I absolutely adore their personalities, but I won’t have another unless it’s a rescue.

My boys do very well with how they recover from dentals but I can almost guarantee I need to nurse them every time with assisted feeding, sometimes for days afterwards.

No of course not, it was one reason I wasn't keen on the dwarfs.

I had it easy with the natural shaped English with their interesting coat pattern genetics.

Talking of insurance. This is why I insure ,for the unexpected

Brooke has just been referred   for a potentially serious back problem , possibly discs.  She is going to need an MRI and the initial assessment and tests estimate is £2500

Obviously hoping it will turn out to be something minor but if she does need surgery etc we could go over out £7000 limit . If that's the case without other claims it will be the 3rd animal that we needed the full amount for in their life . Non being genetic just bad luck

Our vet asked us if we'd home our rabbit, he'd been abandoned at the surgery, he was very young. Even though his diet was correct all his teeth were misaligned and all needed to be filed including his back teeth. I wouldn't of dared to attempt it myself as I wouldn't know where to start and he was a wriggler.
He passed away recently at 9 years old, he'd had an operation on his back teeth two days before. We didn't have a choice regarding the op as he was in pain.
I didn't know that rabbits could live in the house, we never had any accidents and our Cocker accepted him from the start. The vet cried with us, what an awful day that was.
He's now buried in the garden with my first dog, many chickens and our cat. I'm planting a mulberry bush next to him.

Hi,
I’m trying to research the small print contract terms for pet insurance. Is anybody aware of a website where I can look at the policy docs without incurring credit searches please? I’d rather not incur unnecessary credit footprints as I’m not ready for a policy yet.
Thanks for all previous insurance info, it’s saved a load of time.

V :-)

The most helpful i have found is speaking to vip4u specialist insurance brokers . they will talk through the different policies without u having to take anything out
I've done this a few times .

I would definitely look at pet plan as 2 things that suit me is that they are ine of the fee that dont add a co payment at 8 years .they leave it until 10 years old and also although they arnt the cheapest premiums are not increased by ur  claims. Ive used others but have found them the best by far . Claiming us all on line now as well which is handy .

Thank you furriefriends

That’s really interesting. I will call VIP4U in the morning. Does Pet Plan offer a guaranteed premium plan as you usually expect the premium to increase after a claim? Or do you mean they don’t increase the premium immediately after a claim but they will when the policy renews on the policy’s anniversary? Sorry I’ll call them as soon as they open!
Thank you.
Vx

They do say that premiums don't increase on claiming its in the website
. Premiums do increase but not because of your personal claims so its implied .ive actually never asked but havnt seen anyone else claim anything
If u go onto their site it might be in there. I know its plastered all over the claiming page but u need a policy to get to that bit.

One thing they do require is that u have an annual oral.checkup and then follow vets advice. without it they won't cover anything oral . However I have just done exactly that and cat needed a dental for gingervitis and they paid out . They don't pay for just a preventative scale and polish . Brooke has had a dental too and I've put in a claim but waiting to find out of vet put it was for a medical reason
Its totally individual but brooke has a back problem atm and so far for mri etc its cost me 5.5k  . We are waiting for biopsy results so looks like my 7k cover isn't going to be enough.  Its not hard to get to 7k . Just food for thought
Oh and watch animal friends if u stay with them until you dog is senior they have a bad way of calculating things and it reduces your sum . Insured . I took them to the ombudsman and won as even their staff arnt aware

Another thing I like about petplan is that my vet is more then happy to claim directly himself from PP rather then me paying first and then doing the claim. All I have to do is sign the paperwork and the surgery fills in everything else and sends it off. Sometime later I will get a letter from PP saying that they have paid the vets and the vet will contact me if the excess is required although I usually pay it in advance.
I don’t know if all vets have this arrangement with PP.  The reason my vets does this is that he knows PP is a good payer of claims and and doesn’t hang about. Previously he used to send claims off to all the different insurance companies only to find that some didn’t pay for ages or rejected claims upon the slightest issue and he was having to argue with them, then there was the difficulty getting the money from some pet owners who were reluctant to pay now their dog was well. He eventually agreed to do PP claims only as they were so reliable.

Unfortunately  they don't all jodi but very useful when they do
Are u aware that pp now have a really efficient online claim system ?
Minimal info needed and press submit all done electronically.
Unfortunately  I am all to up-to-date with their system having put in at least 6 claims and still going between 3 animals in the last 6 months

I don’t know that furriefriends, very useful to know