Hello everyone.
I’m looking to be put in touch with people who have owned/ currently own/breed Smooth Collies. I would love to know more about the breed as in our research we keep coming back to them as a potential suitable breed for us, and I’d love some information and opinions from people who have spent a lot of time with the breed.
We have been discussing adding a dog to our family since August last year (pre Covid) and since Covid, we have been totally disheartened by the how the puppy market has changed, hence us over a year later still being without our furry family member. I was in touch with a breeder a few months ago but was unsuccessful with a litter they had. I didn’t come across them until puppies were born and I fully appreciate there are long waiting lists.
What I’m really looking for though is just more info about the breed , anything and everything appreciated.
Thanks for reading.

Have you tried the breed club for advice? They will know the breeders to contact, some clubs hold lists where breeders have a litter due or planned too

https://smoothcollieclubgb.org/

Ooh thank you. I will definitely look at this. I saw there was no clubs listed on Champdogs so this is great.

Another good place for information is Collielife.com. You can also ask to be put on waiting list for a smooth puppy.
Never owned Smooth Collies but had Rough Collies and used to go to shows with Smooth Collie owners.
Got the impression that they are a bit livelier than the Roughs.... Lovely dogs and usually do well in agility and obedience etc.
Let me know if you want any more information. But would say that most of my experience of them is going back 20 years or so. !

The smooth collie breed notes in the ‘Our Dogs’ paper are written by Delia Moores (delia_manordeifi176@btinternet.com), if that’s any help.

Collie Life website, generally the smooth breeders are good at eye checks but important puppies are ophthalmologist tested around 8 weeks for CEA. This is NOT the same as a vet check. Despite being smooth they do shed a bit, not as spectacularly as the Rough but at least with the Roughs it’s only twice yearly, however, the Smooths seem to have less of the shyness trait. Good luck, well done for considering a less popular breed, the Collies are a fab breed in my opinion :)

Surely both parents would be DNA tested for CEA(CH) so the screening would not be required unless one parent was a clinically go right affected dog?

Hopefully so, but the numbers of affected dogs far outweigh the number of clears/carriers, in Roughs it is over 80% worldwide affected, Smooths is less. Ophthalmologist testing is not just for CEA.

Other great breed resources are icollie.co.uk and the Collie Health Foundation

Thank you, this is such great info. Via the Smooth Collie Club I found the email address of a breeder and have asked her for more breed info too. From everything I have read and seen they seem like such fantastic dogs, it’s baffling me a little why they are so unpopular!

Litter screening is only for conditions that are found in puppies that can go right:- ie CEA(CH).

Colobomas unrelated to CEA(CH) do occur in puppies & adults this would be the only other condition you will find in Smooth Collie puppies. PRA/HC etc are not found in puppies even Junvenile Cataract usually doesn't develop until until dogs are 6 monthd

Yes that’s right :)

I think it’s just a case they are not as well known as their Border Collie cousins and not the most glamorous of the Collie breeds, but they are wonderful family dogs. Good and bad is they are very sensitive so would never recommend a Collie for a home with depressed or quarrelling adults and/or children, they have a sixth sense and will become weirdly in tune with your thinking and mood. It’s what makes them so wonderful though too! Good luck with your search!

I do feel I should add that testing of parents and puppies by a registered ophthalmologist costs around £60. I have heard in the past (not in Smooths) some saying they don’t test litters as they’ve never had issues before and it’s expensive.

Firstly, never having had issues before does not mean it won’t happen in the future. There are enough people in the FB groups with partially sighted dogs. It’s more common than you think and is not the status quo.

If you go on the BVA website under eyes there is a list of registered practices with ophthalmologists who can carry out the checks, there are plenty spread across the U.K.

I hope this helps give you some more confidence as you go about your enquiries depending on what answers you are given.

That's not my experience since DNA testing has been available, I cannot see the point in litter screening puppies from DNA tested parents.

Thank you. I will definitely look into this and bear it mind when making enquires.

I'd imagine that DNA now supercedes Clinical testing for CEA making litter screening poinless.

In my breed we still eye test in case any new problems arise, as the known eye conditions now have DNA tests.

Agreed not in clear/carrier matings, but when a huge amount of Collies in the U.K. are untested and those that are being most likely affected based on the breed statistics, it makes it necessary. If you look at the Collie health testing pages on the KC website it provides a list of all dogs DNA tested, it’s so few. Put it this way, I’ll be doing it despite knowing I’ll have carriers as I think providing more registered evidence is essential for future use, I also have a personal experience with family member owning an almost blind dog not through choice and due to coloboma and retina detachment, that should have been detected as a puppy sadly. This from one of the top sires and winners.

Not huge numbers of Smooth Collies begin bred in UK. Even the top breeders have gone abroad for DNA tested bloodlines & successfully produced a Champion Clear(of CEA(CH)). So some are taking forward steps.

Sadly in the Collie breeds only the BCs being actively having testing as the normal.

Quite agree, every dog/bitch used for breeding should be DNA tested.

Makes sense even from a practical POV avoiding havingbto transport a litter for clinical testing.

I also feel the Clinical Eye test for breeding adults should continue to help identify any potentially emerging conditions.

Thank you everyone. I’m finding the health testing side a bit of a confusing minefield. How does the BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Screening Scheme differ from the CEA DNA tests? What does the Screening Scheme look for?
With the MDR1 too, from what I can see on the KC site there’s significantly more carriers and affected dogs then clear ones. So can anyone tell me what living with a dog affected with MDR1 is like. Is it just a case of avoiding certain medications and making the vet aware or is it more the case that there’s no knowing how a dog may react to any medication?

Aside from the health test side of things. Can anyone tell me what their exercise requirements are like? Of course they are a herding breed and could go all day when out working. On a normal day for us I would be able to do two 30 minute walks plus likely as much off lead time in a field near our house. Would that be enough?
Thanks again everyone. You’ve been very helpful.

It is only in the last 2 devades that the canine genome has been mapped, and mutated versions of genes causing inherited diseases identified.

The most common inherited diseases have been various eye diseases.

Most DNA tests developed have been for Reccesively inherited diseases, especially useful for those late onset diseases not clinically apparent until a dog has already been bred from.

The BVA/KC,/ISDS scheme is a Clinical exam, and all that was available to try and reduce the incidense of eye disorders.

The problem of course was that this could only identify clinical signs, so could not identify carriers, or affected dogs of late onset conditions until the symptoms appeared.

Even so the Clinical eye exam reduced the number of affected dogs bred hugely.

Of course clinical testing is still vital to identify emerging conditions, and of course not all eye conditions have definitive DNA tests for all breeds.

An unfortunate effect though was discarding known carriers (parents of affected individuals) from future breeding, even though they were healthy, and had other useful traits, thus adding to reduction in gene pools.

DNA  testing allows a breeder to retain the breeding potential of dogs through the use of DNA tests for recessive conditions.

This means as long as one parent isclear for a given recessive condition the puppies produced will all be unaffected. Some will be Carriers, but any used for breeding should be tested and if Carriers mated to clear partner.

Eventually there will be a larger pool of clears of various bloodlines (that otherwise would have been excluded), and fewer Carriers will be used, unless they are otherwise exceptional or useful.

As we go on our breeds will have more DNA tests.

For example my very healthy robust breed has 3, so any individual could be Clear/Carrier for some, all or none, and need a mate to complement.

The problem with relying on clinical testing for CEA(CH) is that unless this is done under 3 months of age, the condition can 'go right' ie it disappears, the dog is still an affected, but is asymptomatic.

This the reason that there are so many affected/carriers in Rough/Smooth Collies & Shelties today. The ISDS started their eye testing scheme way back in 1966 before the KC joined the scheme. They set very strict rules, any bitch producing 1 affected puppy could no longer have puppies registered with them, any stud dog producing 2 affected puppies could no longer have puppies registered with them. This rule reduced the occurance of CEA(CH) from 20% of all registered dogs to under 0.01% in 20 years & the DNA test statistics confirm this.

Sadly because the KC is not a members only registry they cannot set this rule & hence the high incidence of CEA amongst the breeds that have this condition.

Eye screening litters does help, but ideally all breeding dogs should be either tested or inherited clears or DNA carriers so that no carrier to carrier matings occur.

The same applies to any autosomal recessive condition of course.

Interesting fact that, like the BC, the smooth coat is a dominant gene so very occasionally a Rough appears in a Smooth litter, but never the reverse of course.

I'm sure somebody will give a clearer answer than I can but as far as I know MDR1 is a problem with several herding breeds. How widespread this is is unknown as many aren't tested. The problem drugs are a certain sedation given prior to anaesthetic (I've forgotten the name). I asked my vet about this prior to getting my bitch spayed a few years ago and he said they didn't use it for any dog because of the potential problems. Some worm and flea treatments are not to be used. The name invermectin is in my head but I may have got it wrong. Otherwise I don't know of any other problems with drugs.

Correct name ivermectin but there are others in that drug family that have to be used with caution too  yes it can affect other herding breeds as well but collies most commonly. Not sure how many other breeds are ever tested 
I did a bit of googling  on it for interest after someone I vaguely  knew lost a collie who was given incorrect treatment and i wanted to learn more

There is an MDR1 awareness group on Facebook and the Collie Life website has a list of drugs that is always recommended you take to your vet. As with the other issues, including DM, unfortunately the level of testing in the breed is low but various groups led in the US estimate the Collie breed is the most affected, potentially over 70%. It is also worth noting that even carrier dogs have been recorded as having adverse reactions. Panacur and Drontal ok for working, Frontline for fleas but NOT Frontline Plus. Highly recommend natural flea deterrents, some people use Seresto collars as they are supposed to be safe but also seen people reference issues with these, whether it is related to MDR1 not sure.

The DNA multiple disease panel tests usually include MDR1

> So can anyone tell me what living with a dog affected with MDR1 is like.

MDR1 seems to be unusual in that even carriers can be sensitive to certain drugs, the dog doesn't have to be affected. A friend in Sweden who had a dog that was an MDR1 carrier almost lost it after treatment for a snake bite and I've since heard several similar stories, I also know of a carrier who was very ill after eating horse poo (presumably the horse had recently been wormed). We've almost eradicated it in silken breeding stock, certainly in Europe, they still breed from some carriers in USA but only to clear obviously.

I have a smooth collie.  She is a blue merle.  They are barkers but can be trained with a soothing voice and gentle touching. She rules the household and rounds everyone up like a true collie.  I have other dogs larger than her and she keeps them in order.  She is also a tease.  Blue merles tend to shed more than the tri-colour though.
She is my second one.  The other one I bought in 1970 when my children were 2 1/2 and 6months.  She was a tri-colour and their nanny.  Both are good guard dogs. I could sing their praises forever.