Hi,
I'm new to this breeding business, but am excited to say my second bitch is now in pup..due mid october, after an unsuccessful mating with my first bitch..and i will try again with her next year..
My question is why do bitches in the same family household need to be separated before, during and after whelping, as this is not only, not very practical, but potentially good be stressful for both bitches?
I've always had 2 litter sisters, although my latest 2 lurchers are not in fact litter sisters, but they are only 6 weeks apart in age (both over 2 years now).
I've read and been told to separate them 3 weeks before whelping and during whelping, and for at least a week or two after.
However I’ve always believed in given dogs a wide range of experiences and things to deal with, in order to get them used to most things - they are both relatively calm dogs, being lurchers, though quite different characters, and I'm already anticipating how each will behave with their pups, though I know nothing is certain with animals and they can always surprise you.
Anyway, what is the concern exactly with keeping them relatively together during the whole process? One friend said mum may move the pups? I can't see that they are likely to be a threat to each others pups? And i can only imagine them both getting quite stressed if separated..especially when such a "big" event like whelping is taking place ?
Any advice / information much appreciated.
Thanks!

I wouldn't allow any of dogs in a household around a newborn litter or during whelping. Some do allow it but I prefer to have peace and quiet for the bitch and you never know how a bitch will react when she is giving birth, some can go into protection mode and can kill her own pups.
Some bitches up until whelping are fine mixed in with other dogs, just keep an eye on them

I have never seperated pregnant bitches until labour has started, though have had some that would not stay in whelping box, and insisted staying with their companions until a birth imminent, especially first timers.

I do not allow the other bitches into the room where Mum and newborn litter are, though the others could see through the baby gate, and I had to nip them through living room on lead to take them out for walks.

When my children were young bitches whelped in my bedroom, and Mum and pups stayed there for two weeks.

I then transferred pups in a pen in kitchen with the others.

Mum would allow them gradually to interact.

Eventually I had a bitch who gave the others a hard time if they got too close, until 3 weeks, so from then on I didn't integrate until then.

Have always kept litter in a pen indoors for the sake of the other dogs, especially as some would be elderly.

Outdoors from 4 weeks a pen with doorway at a height for adults, but contain pups.

At 6 weeks, when they could jump the board, all adults and pups mixed.

Some bitches are more protective/possesive of newborn pups, and some bitches would try and take over a litter, both could cause stress or fights.

In the wild a bitch would have her pups in a den, and the rest of the pack would meet them once they had eyes open and could venture out.

I have been told of instances where a bitch has killed another bitches pups, though not in my breed.

The precaution is that mum to be goes back to her instincts when having a litter and as she hasn’t had a litter before then it’s very difficult to say how she’s going to be as a mother towards other ‘threats’. Some are very maternal and can feel it so strongly that they don’t want others, no matter how close they’ve been in the past, near their pups. The best thing is to keep them separate especially during the birth and for a bit after. Usually unless mum shows signs of not wanting other dogs near her then I haven’t separated before then. And seeing as well as you’re inexperienced then I would say definitely separate - for both dogs sake. Females mothers can get aggressive where no aggression has taken place before, it’ll be totally new to her and having another dog pacing around won’t necessarily be a comfort more perceived as a threat. She could act out aggressively. Or she could be so unsettled that she, like you say, tries to move pups or even try to hold the birth off as she doesn’t feel safe.
If you’re worried about that other dog then once birthing has started put her in a room next door with a baby gate separating the room (ideally with a blanket over so mum doesn’t think she can get in and isn’t distracted by the other girl) that way you can keep an eye on both and that way the other girl can smell and hear what’s going on etc. Once birthing has stopped (ie definitely no more pups left!) remove the blanket so they can see each other and if mum wants to come out and have a little sniff through the gate of the other dog then so be it. Don’t force it. Then with mine I do separate them (unless they’ve had a litter before and I know how they are then I treat it differently).
Over the next couple weeks let mum lead the way, don’t just let the other dog go in because she wants to. Remember mum is the one who’s pregnant and is rearing the pups, it won’t harm the other dog to be kept away from her but it could do harm if you let them near each other too soon. So times I let mum near the others is when she’s wanting to have a stretch and walk around, coming up to the gate herself not forcing it. I let her out as long as she wants and then when she indicates to go back in then me and her go back in - no other dogs. Same with going out in the garden, I’ll let her out and then let another out - if they’re too sniffy then I encourage the other to leave her alone - sometimes a lead is handy for the other dog not mum! Usually you’ll see her get more and more comfortable when you let them near each other and gradually she’ll spend less tome with them anyway. Around the 2 week mark I allow them into the room but not in the Whelping box and again watching for any negative body language.
For the sake of mum it’s best they’re separated, you want mum to be as comfortable and feel as safe as possible. At the end of the day they’re animals and birth can take them back to their wild instincts no matter if they’re family or not. It’s not worth the risk of unsettling mum imo. Hope that helps and good luck

> I've read and been told to separate them 3 weeks before whelping

I am curious where you have seen this advice.

I have only ever seen it in relation to suggested Council Breeding Licensing conditions, and like you would strongly disagree with it along with set heating requirements, seperate washing and food prep areas etc, that should only really apply to Kennel situations.

Domestic situations and set ups are infinitely variable, varying by household (human and canine) individual needs.

Certainly I keep Mum to lead only excersise in last 3 weeks, keeping awaybfrom 'strange' dogs, for safety, e.g. collisions, aggression risks, etc.

You might find she will separate herself as whelping starts then I would keep them separate as she will want to be alone or she could attack your other bitch to protect her pups.

This is incredibly helpful advice and much appreciated..thank you so much.
I have plenty of room here so I can keep them in separate rooms no problem.
Its the going in and out for walks that I think will be a bit more of a logistical juggling act! :-)
But I can see that behaviours could well change from what I'm used to.. ie mum wanting to stay with pups rather than join sister for a walk etc
But t.bh lurchers are pretty chilled.. and obedient so I'm surs we'll sort it all out no problem!
Thanks again.. all good instructive info!

My question is why do bitches in the same family household need to be separated before, during and after whelping, as this is not only, not very practical, but potentially good be stressful for both bitches?

If you venture into breeding there are a LOT of factors to consider, and being able to keep a bitch and pups separate from other dogs is just one of them. One of the very basics. I've had one bitch -granted she was a rescue who arrived pregnant so circumstances were not normal- be so intolerant of other animals once her pups were born that she would throw herself against the window if there was a bird outside, and at one point because of that behaviour she stepped on a pup and caused a massive tear in the pup's skin.

You never know how a bitch will react until it happens hence you have to play safe.

the advice was from a person I know who breeds whippets but communication can be a bit sporadic as she's a pretty busy lady..and on the internet when I've googled it..thanks for the advice to all...so much appreciated and what a very useful site / forum this is!

I wonder where that (separation before whelping) came from.   Other than during the final week to 10 days when my pregnant girls were sleeping in their whelping box/whelping quarters, with one of us on a cot in the same room, and making sure there was no possibility of her being accidentally banged, they all stayed together until the whelping began.    After that, once the puppies were born, NONE of mine went anywhere near mum with her brood and in the last place we lived in before I stopped breeding, mum even went outside in the front (big) area where none of the others went.    That was mainly to avoid cross infection as the others were being exercised as normal.

Once the puppies were over 3 weeks and up on their feet, the smaller part of the whelping box (4 X 4) was moved into the kitchen with the second 4 X 4 section added.  The sides were around 3 ft so actually there really was no nose to nose contact with the puppies even then.   When the weather was nice, they spent as long as possible outside in the puppy pen.  And mum was basically back with the others.  At that point the others could obviously see the puppies although most didn't show much interest - puppies he... we are too kool for them.

I imagine we all do what works best for our particular breed and individuals but there wasn't much intermingling going on because of the size/weight difference.

> the advice was from a person I know who breeds whippets

I am very surprised, as we have never separated ours, until the pups were born.

I've only ever separated mine at actual whelping - they're all house dogs and all go out for walks together so separating them for weeks just isn't practical! All the other dogs are out of the whelping room (the office and 'dog room'!) and sleeping in another room by the due date, with me sleeping in there instead. Whelping can get some first-time mothers very anxious, and sometimes so protective that they have been known to eat their own newborns to 'save  them' from potential threats. Once the litter's born the other dogs aren't allowed in the whelping room at least until the pups' eyes are open, and generally not before they're properly on their feet. However the dam will be going for walks with the other dogs from a few days after whelping, and spending time with them away from her pups when she needs a break. But the others aren't allowed in the room! Once the pups start going outside for short periods from about 4 weeks (weather permitting) the other dogs are introduced once at a time and are very soon playing with the babies, and all can come and go as normal - the litter has become part of the family group.

The main time to separate is from whelping to about 3-ish weeks.

After that, assuming the older dogs are good with pups, it would actually be great socialisation for the pups to meet other dogs if you keep it controlled and supervise closely.

Brilliant..that all makes perfect sense! I did have the whelping box in our conservatory but realised that wouldn't work as it is right by the front door and is subject to big fluctuations of temperature..

So I have now put it in the back if the house and "second lounge" - i can easily block this off from the other lounge with a board and there is a sofa in there which I can sleep on.

And I can get both dogs in and out more easily without the "sister" bitch having to go past the pups every day.

So I think this is the best set up..then I can move pups into the conservatory when a bit bigger!

Thanks so much for all the helpful advice..I’ve been waiting to do this for 30 years.. until I had enough time and the right property and space and I am overwhelmed with excited anticipation, and am finding the whole journey remarkable!

First priority is keeping both bitches safe, well and loved

I am very surprised, as we have never separated ours, until the pups were born.

I had one bitch, once years ago now, that would not accept other bitches anywhere near her from the very day she was mated. I remember asking on here at the time and there was one other breeder who had had a bitch the same, so it can happen but in my own experience it is rare. Once the pups were about 5 weeks old she was back to normal and for her second litter she didn't need separating.

> I have been told of instances where a bitch has killed another bitches pups, though not in my breed.

That happened quite recently with someone in my breed, her borzoi bitch killed a newborn silken puppy. The bitches got on really well together previously and the breeder kept all her dogs together during whelping, but then had to quickly change her mind and her setup when this happened

Goldmali ~ My surprise was more in relation to Whippets, rather than bitches in general, sorry I should have made my reply more specific