Hi,

My medium sized gun dog girl had 9 pups on 6th July, they will be 7 weeks tomorrow. She is still bleeding red blood and more than I would expect, my question is has anybody experienced this before and when should I worry? There is no smell, she seems her normal self, eating and drinking normally, just still losing a decent amount of blood (it’s not pouring out of her but it’s more than I’d expect and more than she would be losing in a normal season). Her bowel movements have also not been as solid as they should be and some I’m unable to pick up and having to hose them away instead, just in case this could be related.

I took her to the vets about a week and a half ago. The gave her an ultrasound, then phoned me (I wasn’t allowed in - COVID) and said there was a large mass in the uterus which was either retained placenta or blood clot, they hadn’t seen this before so had “done some research” and concluded that I needed to sell the pups ASAP (they weren’t even 6 weeks old at the time), so that her milk would dry up and they could spay her the following week. The fact they’d had to “do some research” added to the fact they’d advised me to illegally sell pups under 8 weeks old, didn’t sit right with me so I took her for a second opinion the next day. The second scan, which I was present for showed no mass whatsoever, no retained placentas and just fluid which would be expected 6 weeks post whelp. I was advised not to follow the first vets advice, which was suspected to have been given either without repro knowledge or intentionally (not approving of breeding) to get her spayed.

The first vet did give an antibiotic injection and a weeks worth of noroclav. As I said though, the bleeding is still present and doesn’t appear to be lessening. Can this be a normal thing following a large litter? I am going to change vets to one that’s more repro savvy (the second opinion was a bit of a distance from my house so need to find a good one more local) but looking for advice in the meantime, or pointers to ask the vet to look out for.

Thanks in advance.

Jade

Bleeding immediately after whelping is 'normal' although I'd not want it to be foul smelling, copious, or mum unwell.   However, to be doing this after 7 weeks is, for me, too long.    If she'd had a C.Section the anaesthetic would make her stools a bit less solid than normal. 

What is going on with vets atm.   There's NO need to be selling these puppies until they are at least 8 weeks.   We kept ours to 10 weeks unless we knew the new owners well, the litter was doing well and I felt and that they were ok taking them at 8 weeks.    Mine were pretty much off mum and doing well on solids by 6 weeks so her milk was drying up naturally.

I'd not go for spaying, unless it was totally confirmed to be the only option (the abnormal length of time she's been bleeding) until roughly mid-way between her last season and the anticipated next, bearing in mind being in whelp and nursing can alter the seasons somewhat.

I think you are absolutely right to find another vet!!

It may be subinvolution of the placental sites. This occurs more often in young bitches and is a failure of repair at the sites on the wall of the uterus where the placentas tore away. Bleeding can continue for many weeks and cause anaemia. To confirm a definite diagnosis pathology of a sample of uterine tissue would be required.

Jade, How much blood is coming out? Is it only coming out when she wees or is it coming out when she's lying down, like on bedding etc?

I'd say it's normal for there to be a small amount of blood (but usually dark, not red) coming out when a bitch wees even 7 weeks after whelping - but I wouldn't expect considerable amounts of red blood coming out on bedding that long.

Here is some info on SIPs: https://www.saintfrancis.org/wp-content/uploads/Subinvolution-of-Placental-Sites-in-Dogs.pdf

I know people might be fed up of me recommending Avidog, but I highly recommend you join the Avidog membership scheme and gain access to their Facebook group as a result (only available to current members) - where you can ask very very experienced breeders and Dr Gayle Watkins, for advice on issues like this. As you've experienced, vets just don't know much about repro health and I firmly believe breeders have to almost 'steer' vets with what they want if they are going to breed - and for me, Avidog offers that opinion and steerage! Membership is $49/month and you can just join for one month to get the advice and help you need, and then cancel. You also have access to all their courses for that month, including their flagship A-Z course (which you can print out to have forevermore!). They are lovely people and incredibly experienced across the group, almost every scenario you can imagine has been faced by those in the group. And A-Z itself is worth the money alone.

I do find their website a little confusing, but this is the membership you need: https://www.avidog.com/shop/dog-breeder-memberships/avidog-breeder-college-membership-monthly/  Then be sure to join their FB group to ask there.