Hi.

Just looking for some advice please.

We have a bitch (Standard Poodle) that had a litter at 2 years old. It was a large healthy litter of pups.

Since then we have tried to mate her 4 times, used progesterone testing each time with a vet that deals specifically with breeding.

The 4 matings proved unsuccessful. 3 times we had natural matings, 2 ties. 1 time AI 2 times.

We had a swab done a year ago, it showed an overgrowth of Strep Canis, and also showed some Pseudomonas cells. We were advised at the time that this should not have any affect on mating. This time we did another swab and there was just an overgrowth of Strep canis - this was treated 5 days pre and 5 days post mating with antibiotics.

She comes into season normally, and ovulates around day 12. We have 3 blood tests to confirm ovulation time.

We are not going to bother trying again, but I just wondered had anyone else had this issue and is there a specific reason to constantly miss, or is it one of many reason?

We are experienced breeders and have never had an issue with any other bitch.

She has had all health tests prior to mating and she is a very fit an healthy dog. She is top dog in the house of 3 females.

Thanks.

Were all 4 matings done with same dog has he been checked.
It's possible you were to late in mating.
I suppose it's also possible that she's not producing viable eggs or their not implanting maybe their not compatible for each other.

Hi.

Thanks for your reply.

It was 2 different dogs however those 2 dogs have successfully mated one of my other girls, and do have a fair few litters between them.

When it comes to timing, we use the progesterone blood test each time for all dogs and it works for the others every time.

Is it possible there is an issue with viable eggs then after previously having a large healthy litter the 1st time, and would this mean there was never any chance of her catching?

I have my own stud dog here now, he wasn't old enough when she came into season last time, but I wonder if it is worth just letting him try next time.

I did wonder if it was the overgrowth of bacteria detected by swabbing her that might be the issue but I know nothing about that type of thing.

Friend of mine years ago had the same problem with his girl, mam offered our stud as a teaser like with stallions young one says she's ready then is take to chosen stud. Our boy was only interested when they where ripe for mating friend came to us for six days vet said she was ready again for the fourth time but friend was prepared to trust our stud when he went YES he went to Wales to the stud the same day and she had four puppies.

If he went off what the vet said she was taken too early

Nothing can beat a good stud who is only interested when they are ready.

We had six girls and him we only separated when he went Ohhh, it could be only five minutes difference with so many house dogs we caged at feeding times going in he wasn't bothered coming out he was

Usually with something like this, you'd need to run bloods to check hormone levels out of heat to and during/coming out of heat to make sure everything is ok and also an ultrasound to see if there is any physical reason - like ovarian cysts, uterine cysts or hyperplasia preventing pregnancy... All that would be best done with a repro vet who knows how to check fertility.

Do you give the herpes vaccine? I had a bitch who was proving difficult to get pregnant. Was advised 7 days of ab's before mating and give the 1st vaccine as soon as she comes into season as well. Some bitches have a very small window. Mine was proving that she needed to be mated as soon as she ovulated and not the 2 days as per the norm. It worked and she took. Her daughter was the same so went the day she ovulated, she took from the mating the following day, chancea are she would have gone over if we had waited those 2 days too.

Herpes could cause her not taking once, but it's unlikely she will have repeated herpes active infections every time a breeding has been tried. The dog gets an outbreak and their immune system responds... and then it's actually about as safe a time as having had the vaccine, to breed, because they have the antibodies for it.

Hi.

Thanks for all the replies.

Would the overgrowth of Strep Canis be an issue does anyone know?

I do wonder if the timing is off, because her season starts slow, then really zooms forward. So 1 minute she is 1.2, the next she is 6 (progesterone test) so where mating may be suggested for say a Friday, based on her numbers, I wonder if really she was ready Wednesday, because she seems to progress quickly, then friday evening is too late. However in saying that, it means we were off 3 times, and our vet only does breeding stuff, its her specialty and I can't see her making that mistake. She is never wrong with the others ever.

Herpes Virus, she had that injection twice during her first and only pregnancy, it wasn't available the next time and hasn't been suggested since.

Our vet did mention some sort of degeneration inside making it not happen, but if she comes into season every 6 months and does ovulate, I can't see that. I have mentioned further testing but I don't think out vet does that so will see if I can find someone that does.

As I say, next time my own boy will be ready so maybe continual mating over a few days could make a difference. At a point now where we have kind have accepted no pups, but it just frustrates me that there seems no obvious reason for it.

It's always good to do the herpes vaccination, whatever. (If it's available.) It comes in and out of availability so you just need to check each time.

Are you doing progesterone testing right through to confirm ovulation? Or are you stopping before ovulation? If you are continuing right through, getting breedings and confirming that she has ovulated with a result which means that ovulation occurred, then there shouldn't be any problems with the progesterone tests. 

Where you can run into problems is if you just test to the point of 'ovulation in X days' and then breed off that information, and the bitch moves along slower or faster than predicted. But with an 'ovulation occurred' result, there's no arguing with that - it's happened and the eggs will then take 48 hours to ripen and be ready for fertilisation and will then remain ready for a further 24-48 hours.

We do the progesterone up until 'ovulation is x days'

I do think its the timing, I think she is moving a lot faster than predicted and we are mis-timing it.

So, next season in 6 months, my boy will be ready - I will let him do the job and get the herpes vaccination as well if available, then see what happens.

Thanks very much for the help :)

If you are using your own stud, let them breed every 2 days until she refuses to stand and goes over.

If you do progesterone testing, you need to test right up until you get an 'ovulation occurred' result. You can fly by the seat of your pants and stop before that and most are fine, but as you had so many misses, I'm surprised your vet didn't suggest that to you after the first one...

They can also have anovulatory cycles, where they don't ovulate at all...

I will do that. Really appreciate the advice!!