Hi - first time breeder and very grateful for previous posts on calcium and heating!

I’m now on day three and until last night bitch was doing brilliantly although panting a lot. She then became agitated at bedtime. Would try to bring the puppies out onto my sleeping area (next to whelping box). Heavier panting. Not wanting to settle with the puppies. I have followed official advice and wonder if she has just been too hot. So I turned the heat source off and have a heat mat under vet fleece in one third. She had an ok night but slightly off food just last night although has now eaten breakfast. Pups are gaining. I guess my worry is she seems less motherly.

I feel she is still a little restless. No temperature. Vet won’t come out because of covid and I don’t want to risk taking her there in case of parvo etc. But I don’t think anything is retained (she ate it all rapidly, no discharge).  She is going to the puppies when they make noise but likes to come out again. I have covered the area and spending most time with her. She is generally in my shadow so I’m not leaving the room much.

So I have some calcium carbonate powder and have been trying to understand dose. Is there a site you specially use? She is approx 15 pounds so I think needs 1200 elemental calcium which is 2.5 tsp of the powder split over meals. I’m just nervous in case it’s too much! But she seems less maternal. I have just given a half teaspoon with yogurt and honey and she does seem calmer already so fingers crossed!

If anyone has read this far and has similar experience I would be grateful! Thanks

She needs 1365mg of elemental calcium/day. I'm afraid it's very likely that whatever supplement you're using isn't enough... It's almost impossible to overdose a bitch on calcium during lactation and raising pups, so don't worry about that.

So the powder you have is calcium carbonate? (Entirely and purely?) If you read the small print does it say exactly how much calcium carbonate is in X amount of the powder? That's what you need to know.

You need to give 3413mg of calcium carbonate a day to provide the above amount of elemental calcium - and it is best given with food, for absorption. (That's not true of all types of calcium, but it is with calcium carbonate.) So you need to look at your supplement and work out how much you need to give of it, to be giving 3413mg of calcium carbonate a day - divided over 2 doses, morning and evening.

You can alternatively give 5x Tums Extra Strength 750 tablets a day - which is also calcium carbonate.

As for people who like to give ice-cream and milk etc etc: To give the equivalent amount of calcium by ice-cream, you'd need to give 8 CUPS of ice-cream a day. So you can see why this just isn't going to provide enough and you need a supplement.

And yes, there is lots of info online for this but you need to join the Avidog Breeder Forum and then their Facebook group, which is about $50 a month and you can stop it at any time. See Avidog.com

I can’t say how grateful I am you responded. I came off the phone from the vet who said max 235mg elemental calcium a day for her weight (I guess this is from her national formula book).

However, I am aiming for 1500 elemental calcium daily...based on her pre-preg weight of 9kg.  The calcium
Carbonate is the “Now” brand and it says it’s pure calcium carbonate powder (1/2 tsp is 600 mg calcium which must be calcium carbonate although the label could be clearer!)

So I think that is 3 tsp a day.

Vet offered to blood test her calcium but I am not sure if accurate. After her first dose this morning she was much calmer then has fed all morning and tried to pick up a puppy again with her mouth and doing the digging thing so giving more. (Last night she started putting puppies on my bed!)

It feels quite stressful! If it wasn’t for my worries about parvo at the vets I might just take her up.

I have ordered online some Collo Cal D but i can’t figure out the amount of calcium. She doesn’t like the Tums..

I might join hang FB group. I have two months of worries :)

Sorry for my change in numbers from original post. It’s because I ascertained her accurate pre-preg weight was 9kg (20 lb)

Yes, dosages should be based on pre-pregnancy weight/normal weight.

That means she should be getting 1802mg of elemental calcium per day.

Which is 4505mg of calcium carbonate/day or 6x Tums tablets.

Your vet's dosage is far too low and will not be effective. Vets don't know about calcium dosing for lactating bitches, this is not covered in vet school and they are just regurgitating text books. There is no incentive for any research to be done into the subject because calcium is cheap and widely available so no money to be made from any drug in this.

The dosages I've given you are recommended by Avidog and by everyone who follows the Avidog protocols, so either take them or leave them... They are safe, I've used them on my girls every litter preventatively, even when there were no issues.

Blood testing for calcium is irrelevant: The bitch will mobilise the calcium stores she has in her body and get that into the blood stream to use for the pups, so she will test normal even when, systemically, her stores are very low...

It looks like half a teaspoon of the Now calcium carbonate = 600mg of elemental calcium. So she needs 1.5 teaspoons a day of that. Divide into morning and evening to keep supply constant. And you can go up from that - this is just a starting point.

If she doesn't like Tums, you can grind them up with a pestle and mortar and mix them into the juice from a tin of sardines (and maybe some sardine too).

Thanks - I’m taking them! I gave her another half teaspoon and she seems calmer and stops panting.

I will continue this way and many thanks.

I do wonder if this would progress to full eclampsia or stay as is and be clocked as a non maternal bitch, if not treated? Makes you wonder...

It's very common. Lots of bitches have these behaviours and were previously dismissed as poor mothers or bad maternal behaviour etc etc - when really they just needed more calcium.

For anyone else who finds this post. The
difference in my girl is remarkable and she is much more settled. Almost all behaviours that were worrying me have settled.

Can I please ask what is the better product the Colloquial cal d or Now Calcium carbonate ( for a newly whelped bitch) thanks

Thanks for the feedback Charliesgirl. Since vets know nothing about calcium supplementation for worrying behaviours during lactation, the only evidence people have to go on is when people like you report back like this.

>Can I please ask what is the better product the Colloquial cal d or Now Calcium carbonate ( for a newly whelped bitch) thanks

There is not really a 'better' product, as they can all work a little differently. But whatever product you buy, you need the info on it to tell you how much elemental calcium is in it - not just how much calcium carbonate/citrate etc etc, but how much of that is elemental calcium.

Dicalcium phosphate and calcium carbonate are best taken with food for absorption and may take a little longer to kick in. Calcium citrate is faster working and does not need to be taken with food.

Ideally if you are supplementing long-term throughout lactation (which many choose to do, preventatively), then you need a product which is balanced for calcium to phosphorus ratios. In the US there is a great product called Doc Roys Healthy Bones, which is excellent and what I use - I don't know if you can ship that here or find it on Amazon, but I get family members to bring it back when they are on trips in the US! If you are just supplementing for a few days or shorter term, then balanced Ca:Ph ratios are less important.

Thank you.