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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Maiden Dog and Maiden Bitch
- By Britwist [us] Date 24.06.20 02:54 UTC Edited 24.06.20 08:24 UTC
I have a 4 year old [bitch] who we are trying to breed. She has never been efore and we are really hoping she has ONE liter before we spay her. Before I get into it, here's some important information.

We've had the male and female together since about day 7 of her heat FULLY SUPERVISED the ENTIRE time
She started allowing her to mount her, flags and stands totally ready for him since day 12 of her heat (today is day 14)
He to mount he constantly, she allows it but sometimes squeels.
No tie has been created, there MAY have been some slip matings the times she squeeled, but IF they occurred, they were very brief.
The male is also maiden and they both seem eager, but still figuring out what to do.
He will mount her, hump for a while then get off.

We are really hoping for puppies, but I am slowly loosing hope. We've had them together all the time so we know they have been or will be together during her real prime optimal time. We really didn't want to force the issue, as we are new to it and only now in hindsight with more experience can tell when she was actually ready.
We thought that having them together would present an opportunity for pregnancy since they wouldn't miss the window of fertility buy also wanted it to occur naturally.

I have my fingers crossed over the next couple days OR hoping the times he has mounted her mama result in pregnancy.

Does that ever happen where to female yelps only a little OR is quite and may have just allowed it?
Could those yelp interactions been slip mating?
If it usually a lengthy production like I've read, or could it really happen "in the blink of an eye"

HELP and experience or advice would be MORE than appreciated.
- By onetwothreefour Date 24.06.20 06:57 UTC Upvotes 1

>We've had the male and female together since about day 7 of her heat FULLY SUPERVISED the ENTIRE time


It's really not a good idea to have dogs you want to breed together from the start of the heat cycle. Especially not if they are inexperienced. For many reasons: They can just habituate to each other and get bored and you lose the passion and excitement that occurs on first-meeting (or each new meeting). And also because the female can often tell the male off if she is not ready yet and he tries to mount - and then, when she IS ready, the male will lack confidence and not be able to breed.

So ideally you would not put them together until you are pretty sure you are entering the fertile time OR you would put them together very briefly to see how things go, but separate again if it seems that things are not going to work that day.

>He to mount he constantly, she allows it but sometimes squeels  No tie has been created, there MAY have been some slip matings the times she squeeled,


Usually squealing is one of two things: She is not quite ready yet. Or she is protesting too much, being a maiden. Without progesterone testing it is pretty hard to tell which you're dealing with, so I'd really suggest going to your vet and getting a progesterone test done. The vet can also check her out internally to see if she has a stricture or physical issue causing the pain and squealing. If the test says she is ready and she has no stricture, you will have to choose if you want to hold her still when he tries to mount and to prevent her from turning around to the degree that he falls off. You can also try parting her vulva and lining it up with his penis. (Don't touch the penis, it is too sensitive and will put him off - position her to him.)

> as we are new to it


You really should be working with an experienced breed mentor who could even be present with you if possible to help supervise matings. It really does sound like you've not much idea what to expect or even when a viable mating has happened. How are you going to cope with whelping puppies, knowing whether to go to the vet, understanding normal and abnormal symptoms during pregnancy and so on...?

>If it usually a lengthy production like I've read, or could it really happen "in the blink of an eye"


You will know if he has ejaculated because there will be 'stair climbing' motion going on from him beforehand...

>The male is also maiden


It's really not a good idea to try to breed two maiden dogs together. A maiden dog should ideally always be bred to an experienced dog, so that at least half of the partnership knows what they're doing...
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 24.06.20 07:10 UTC
We had one of our girls who was very vocal throughout mating, and whelping.   That didn't mean anything, it was just her :grin:  

We had a friend who was 'expert' in mating our breed particularly - they can be very difficult.   So we'd more often than not arrange for any outside stud enquiries we agreed to, to meet with us at her place.   We gave her a percentage of the stud fee for her help!  Having her involved avoided messing around!    One of our males never tied with his bitches, always had slip ties but as with my breed it was very 'hands on' - we had to have the bitch supported across our knees (us sitting on the ground) so if the male was able to get inside, he was 'held there' for sufficient time.   And when he came off, she was upended to help the sperm get where it was needed.  He only missed to one bitch but she was later found to be infertile.

I'd totally agree with separating them from the start of the season.

Did you buy the male with the intention of mating him to her - after looking for one who wouldn't be doubling up on her faults (which they all have) and having studied pedigrees beforehand?   If you don't get a litter this time, I'd look to her (reputable) breeder for advice as to the best male to use with her so she produces top quality puppies.  The breeder would have had to lift any endorsements good breeders put on immature stock?
- By Nimue [ch] Date 24.06.20 08:02 UTC Edited 24.06.20 08:26 UTC Upvotes 2
Mating a female for the first time at age 4 years is very questionable.  It's rather like a woman having her first child at 45.  I hope all goes well, that you have the infrastructure to manage a litter and, especially, that you have an experienced mentor ON HAND throughout the whole thing.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Maiden Dog and Maiden Bitch

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