Just pondering whether or not it's worth following the Kennel Clubs in some EU countries, who require a dog to be a good example of the breed?  It's prompted by one of my pups who has passed (thankfully) everything, but how hard can it be to breed a dog with good dentition, within the correct size range, and that is a good example of the breed?  Would there be any down sides to this sort of thing?  She's also passed a retriever test and all her health tests, and I can't see any negatives about this sort of system.

The more individuals that are ruled out of a closed gene pool, the sooner breed extinction follows.

It has its pros and cons.
What I'd like to see 1st off is that the kc make health testing mandatory in order for a litter to be registered. Results could be anything but at least they have been tested and it made widely known buyers are to do their own research on the differing results to make an informed decision. Parents not health tested no litter will be registered

She's 1cm too short, and not been closed out of the gene pool, so she's not perfect, no dog is, but a system that highlights faults and shows them in black and white maybe?

I agree with Jeangenie, we can't afford to exclude dogs from the gene pool. The most important thing for any breeder should be health and temperamnet, and I agree with Suejaw that health testing should be mandatory. Litters should only be registered if both parents have been fully tested, and have good results. I'd also like to see some basic form of temperament testing, taking into account breed types.

If the general public knew that to be kennel club registered meant a pup came from fully health tested parents who had also passed a temperament test then that would surely go a long way to persuade people to steer clear of puppy farmers and crosses?

For me breed type, success in the ring, although important is very much secondary to health and temperament. It's also open to interpretation and we can't guarantee the integrity of it. I was at a show in Germany where the Swedish judge was told after the first class, where she graded the two pups as VG, that if she didn't grade dogs as EXC they couldn't be bred from, she went on to give every dog in every class an exc. So grading from a show point of view is almost pointless.

If a puppy buyer wants to show themselves then they can do more research into lines and types, but that's not important to most pet homes.

I didn't say to exclude dogs, but to have in black and white an assessment of a dog, I don't think that's a bad idea.  Conformation faults can cause health issues as well, and I think from what I could read on the paperwork I was sent, the overall dog was judged, so how they were with people handling them.

I think the question is a bit moot because there's no way that system is going to suddenly start up in the UK, whatever the pros and cons of it.

> but to have in black and white an assessment of a dog,

But again it's open to abuse so of little value I would say, breeders friend gives glowing report of dog, another judge may think dog is awful and not worth breeding from?

> I think the question is a bit moot because there's no way that system is going to suddenly start up in the UK, whatever the pros and cons of it.

True, but it's always fun to debate things

It appalls me that ABS members can do the bare minimum, breed on from less than ideal health test results, and somehow they are supposed to be better than the average breeder?!

But then all events are open to abuse, and this does take place, so does that mean we should trial or show dogs either?

I know of a fellow-breeder who lives in Switzerland where, if this is what you mean, a committee of fellow-breeders meet to assess dogs in the breed.  It's all very well but the cynic in me wonders they know the owner/breeder of the dogs in front of them before making their assessment and just as with judging (which for me should be enough) it gets facey?   Also might money change hands.

I believe that if our judges in this country do their job as they should, wins, or not, in the ring should probably be enough.  Not that a failed exhibit can't sire or produce puppies of course.   And then again, I've known of cases where an unshown or for some reason unsuccessful in the ring sibling has thrown better puppies than the successful sibling.