Hi all

Feel a bit silly asking for help as ive had pups before that all bite but this one is so stubborn!

Shes 16 weeks now, has a horrid hour in the morning grabbing my arm, feet etc and biting hard. I tell her off and she just barks in retaliation.

Ive tried yelping when she barks, putting a toy in her mouth which is difficult as cant get her off my clothes. Ive also tried ignoring her, getting up and going standing somewhere and that does work till i sit back down.

Bit stressed now , everything else is fine, she walks on the lead and recalls in training very well but its this darn biting and stubborness

Why isnt she retreating when i shout?

because shouting is a response- a loud exciting response.   pups just love getting attention and excitment and she is getting just that.
other people have their own methods - with my puppies I would remove myself if being bitten - without comment or overt reaction .  and i am a big fan of bitter apple spray- sprayed librally over bits of me being nipped - most hate the stuff and will avoid

Why isnt she retreating when i shout?

Because dogs don't understand human verbal language.

Puppies learn by body language not verbal commands & shouting can actually worsen behaviour.

If you watch a bitch with her puppies, if their behaviour becomes inacceptable she doesn't bark at them, doesn't alpha roll them nor hit them phyiscally. She will get up & take herself away from the puppy, she might do this a thousand times before it dawns on the puppy(ies)that the OTT behaviour is unrewarding. The bitch might give a quiet grump( not growl)almost under her breath as she moves away. You have found removing yourself( & I mean out of the room & sight)works so this is what you have to keep doing. Plus any reaction to the nipping etc is rewarding to the puppy, so not reacting other than taking yourself away for a while & letting the puppy settle should hasten things.

Why not start
some basic training at home

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=64170.0   
This is very useful link thay will give u some tips and reasons for.the behaviour

As well as what ann explained some pups actually see u shouting as joining in with them and it excites them further
Just seen weimed said similar

I either stood in the corner and totally ignored the puppy or left the room and these two things worked the best as puppies hate being ignored. However I did it every single time she bit or nipped or barked and the words ‘every single time’ are the most important bit.
If you do it once or twice and then get fed up because it doesn’t seem to work, then your pup hasn’t learned anything. It may take quite a while before it dawns on your pup that undesirable behaviour means your attention and presence is withdrawn, so you need to be persistent and consistent.

Shouting will make no difference as the pup will think this is part of the game.

Is this a breed new to you, or have you had the same breed before?

I would say you have a persistent, playful pup. How scary is your shout? And do you want to scare your pup? She’s brave at present, that’s why she won’t back off. She craves your attention, you’re her world. Pups are easy to to train the wrong way, they so want to please you, just laugh (or give any attention positive or negative) when they do something wrong-but-cute. I trained my youngster to jump up at the TV when I switched it off by laughing the first time the cute little mite jumped up when it played its switch-off chime. I stopped myself at once, but it took two years to untrain the behaviour.

It’s difficult to ignore the pup swinging from your sleeve, but give her something else to do, a sit, or down or something else incompatible with jumpy bitey play and praise her extravagantly for doing it. Be consistent and she’ll learn. Something to help her express her energy and enthusiasm would be best - what can you arrange for her? Send her off to fetch a named toy, perhaps? Hide a super treat where she has to hunt for it? You know your dog best.

Hi Merrypaws

Yes it is a different breed. Everything going well just the biting/barking, worried if i cant nip it in the bud now im going to end up with a dominant dog! Its very sensible what you have said and ill try that thank you

It sounds as though she’s doing pretty well for a youngster.

Modern studies of dog behaviour have proved the “dominance” theory wrong, dogs don’t want to dominate humans. They are however social animals that like to play especially when young, you need to bend* that the way you want it to go.

Some dogs will need you to be at the top of your game all or most of the time - they’re usually intelligent, know what you want and how to do it, but now they’ve “got the t-shirt” don’t see why they have to do that again. That’s where rewards help to answer the “why?”; not necessarily food, often your attention, praise, or a favourite toy or ball does it for them.

*”bend” like training a plant, gently.

worried if i cant nip it in the bud now im going to end up with a dominant dog!


What makes you think that ? True dominant dogs are as rare as hen's teeth & they do not bite, nip or growl at humans they have no need to"dominate" humans as they know humans are not dogs.

The whole"dominance"theory is flawed & based on erroneous studies of artifical captive wolf packs. Dogs are NOT wolves & thousands of years of domestication apart from them plus the behaviour of a natural wild wolf is totally different to that seen in captive srtifical wolf packs.

Sadly the popular "dominance" theory wrongly interprets growling, air snapping etc as signs of aggression & dominance, when in fact they are just the opposite & are signs of anxiety & fear.

What you describe is totally normal puppy behaviour & whilst not acceptable to humans, is tolerated by other dogs before the onset of puberty. Key to controlling the behaviour is 100% consistency of your & the other members of your household reactions. It's no good having one person doing one thing & the other doing the opposite.

It's quite important to teach an "off switch" did you bother to watch the videos I posted the link to to see the training that can be at home ?

I'm probably going to be berated here but oh my god Ann, every comment I read from you seems to have a sarcastic judgemental undertone to it. Not everyone is an expert and it is better for people to ask for help rather than carry on doing things incorrectly. Please, unless you can address this tone, don't respond to any questions I may ask in the future.

Oh I so sorry. This poor owner has obviously been very unlucky & got a dominant 16 week old puppy,, they obviously need expert help from a professional behaviourist.

I clearly know nothing & should keep my gob well & truly shut in future & leave giving advice to more qualified members.

You will not see me replying to any questions you ask as I will use one of the most useful tools on here

Bye

Glad it's not just me that thinks this, masajackrussell!

Hahaha! I’m also glad it’s not just me! Well flattiemum I think her reply just proved my point. I never questioned her knowledge, she seems to have a lot of experience that people could benefit from, it’s just the arrogance and total disdain for anyone with slightly less knowledge than her that gets me!

Certainly not just you.

Some dogs cant deal with high protine diet especially if you are feeding from a bag

High protein has never been shown definitively to have any effect on behaviour; rather its the source of the protein, the quality.  Foods where the majority of the content is cereal (so the protein is coming from maize, usually) often make things worse, as well as foods with colourants in.

It is definitely worth looking at whatever's being fed, just remember to look at the individual ingredients.

Which food is puppy on?

Hi thank you and im glad you felt this other poster was being sarcastic. I was quite upset at her response. I thought this forum was to help people not make them look silly. I haven't been back on since the last comment .

Thank fully there are some really helpful people on here so it can be a really useful source of informstion , thanks all

Me too re that contributor but if it does anything hanging on this type of forum, it teaches you to develop a thick skin.   Part of the trouble is this is a mult-breed forum and so quite often what works with some people/breed, doesn't with another.   And for sure some people are more able to share their experience better than others.

Not listening (biting) - change your approach.     Shouting will usually only make an outgoing puppy come back for more .... 'yipee I'm getting quite the reaction'!   You really need to see how a dam or another sibling being attacked reacts - they walk away.... end the contact, usually.   Once the puppy learns this behaviour will produce what she sees as the 'wrong reaction', she should learn.   Dogs usually want to please their owners.

So stand up (actually try not to let him get quite that excited!), say no biting, take her outside to empty and back to her bed (ideally for me, a crate) with a few puppy biscuits.  If as I suspect is the case, she'll probably complain but soon drop off to sleep.   This really does need to stop asap,  because you can't have a young hooligan biting, obviously.

Mamabas has hit it on the nose. the other contributor has some good knowledge that's for sure but the attitude was rather rude and condescending. Don't let that put you off. Most are lovely on here!

You may not understand their behavior. Be persistent

Hi
This post very interesting thanks, we have a pup too biting just doesn't let go of the ankles tried different things need more advise please also he constantly pulls on the lead any tips for this please, commands are good etc sit lay etc, toileting good too he is suffering with teeth if anyone has advise also sometimes won't settle in cage ona night. We had a trainer advised gently shoving them. Of when bite but not worked also tried getting up walking away which works but comes back to. Bite thank you

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=64170.0

As a start point read through this. Young pups use their mouths and often called little land sharks. 
Make sure he has things to chew especially as his adult teeth will be coming through and his.mouth can be sore.
Frozen carrots are good as are dried tripe sticks ,not rawhide its dangerous.

My reply on the leash training thread, also about a young pup:

When I'm lead training a dog, if that dog pulls, I stop, and encourage them to come back to me (I do not pull them back).  I don't wait for them to turn round - I actively encourage them back.  The second their attention is back on me, I move forwards again, and THEN I feed when they are back next to me and in position.  I do not feed when they come back to me, only once we're on the move again.  Moving again reinforces them coming back but feeding it can result in a yoyo effect where the dog learns to pull, to be called back and get a treat.  By only feeding when they're in the right position, that's what gets reinforced, and feeding in position strengthens it further.  Every few steps, then gradually spreading it out.  If the dog springs off once they have their first treat, then I'll switch to going a step further each time we've set off again before they get that treat (so they're coming back, we're moving on again, and a little further before that treat on each repetition).  That way they learn to hang around with you and the duration increases.

Both reward timings work, it just depends on the dog as to which I use.

Furriefriends:  > rawhide its dangerous.

Hi, I didn't know anything about this.  Would be obliged if you could advise as it's a treat I give all of my dogs. Thank you in advance.

Additional for the feet biting - I do the same thing, near enough.  When puppy goes for feet I stop, get their attention, then carry on walking, rewarding every few steps for looking at me and not at my feet.  Rinse and repeat if they go back to the feet.  I find it works really well, and fast, and it starts off lead training in pups that haven't started walking yet too.

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/rawhide-dangerous-for-dogs/

In a nutshell, they’re full of really dodgy chemicals and a serious choke hazard. I know of a border terrier who died as a result of choking on a rawhide chew.

RozzieRetriever:> dodgy chemicals and a serious choke hazard

OMG!  Thanks....stock of said now heading onto the fire!  Why oh why are manufacturers still allowed to produce them if they are of such harm?  Bloody madness!

Goodness knows why it's still on sale .there have been many cases of choking, anecdotal of course.  Never mind the chemicals used
Mine have dried tripe sticks or.similar .as.long as good quality much safer

The chemicals used in producing rawhide chews include carcinogenics & poisons including arsenic!

I was told many years ago by someone who worked in a tannery never to give my dogs rawhide chews & I never have since

furriefriends:> tripe sticks or.similar

Thank you. Is there a brand you would consider good quality?  I could order on line then.

Ann R Smith:> never give my dogs rawhide chews

Thank you for this advice.  I have a local club meeting tomorrow afternoon and will pass this info on.

These days there are a ton of dried alternatives such as various ears, windpipes and so on.  It's fab.  Rabbit ears are a staple in this house for my puppy - I cut them in half but they're great for keeping him busy without the chemical worries.

Not really ,I've had some from zooplus and have just ordered some from where I get my raw dog food .the dogs butcher but I think they are a Christmas special .both online
As nikita says lots of.different things to.choose and I will leave you guessing what bulls pizzles are :)

I go to an online shop called K9 Delights and order a mixed £20 box, it’s full of lovely animal parts, most of which keep my 6 month old crocodile occupied for a good hour or so (supervised)!

Hoggie I have found empty Cow Hooves ( the big ones) are the best lasting chews for my lot.

I only get the pale calf ones for young pups going to their new homes.

Just looked at them Alexandra. Some great stuff there very useful .thank u

My River gets tons of natural safe chews. He’s had hooves, chicken feet, various ears, antlers, windpipes, strips of bladder, bully sticks/pizzles, yak cheese blocks, duck or turkey necks, pig snouts, tripe sticks, fish skin, small whole fish, deer legs with the hooves on, meat strips, different skins (some with fur on), liver strips, name the body part and he’s probably eaten it! There are also dried vegetable things like sweet potato as well.

Lots of places are selling good treats now, especially places that do raw food.

Anco are a really good brand, lots of natural chews with no nasty chemicals. I get a lot of my stuff from a site called ‘devildood’ - a small business set up by one lady, she’s very good at advising what chews are good for the type of dog (old, pup, small, big etc).
I found out a few years ago and still can’t believe that the big stores are allowed to sell them. Watching the process of how it’s made (especially into shapes) on YouTube just shows how awful it is.
If your dogs like rawhide then they will go crazy for natural non chemical/gluey chews - mine like the hooves but they love ‘pizzles’ and go crazy for the stinky hairy ones like ears (I try to get them to eat these outside!!)

You’re welcome I think they are great :)

> Cow Hooves

I tried these on my lot..they bloomin stink, I thought tripe was bad but these are worse...never again

Try getting out of bed and standing on one :)
As bad as standing on lego !

Ah wimpy folk they smell (while being chewed) like burning hair and Bovril.

Not the ones I had smelt just like cow s**t..
As to wimpy, I don't think so, after smelling retained afterbirth from a cow, I can stomach most smells!!!

I stopped giving rawhide chews over 30yrs ago after one of mine did choke on one luckily we managed to get it out but never used them since.
My god seems a long time ago now.

The hooves do smell a bit like cow pats but I don’t think it’s too bad and I’m very sensitive to smell.

Maybe it’s because we only have the pale calf ones? Perhaps the dark adult ones smell worse.

The four or five River has scattered around the house are certainly not noticeable unless he’s been chewing one and then tries to kiss your face - yuk!

Ueah the bigger onrs are a bit smellier, but they only really smell while actively being chewed.

Unchewed they have only a slight smell.

All chews have to be monitored though. Mine has managed to gollop down 5 inches of pizzle stick all in one go in the past. No ill effects in that case, but dogs with a more delicate stomach may not fare so well.

I would simply find some interactive toys, that can help in this situation.