Hello all

I have my puppy and shes gorgeous and eating well.

The breeder has been great and given us a variety of food to keep her going.
I have purina pro plan puppy, nutriment raw food & Forthglade which we havent tried yet.

She likes both the pro plan & the nutriment, i would say after eating nutriment her stools are smaller and firmer, ive never fed raw before so all new to me.

Only had her 5 days, in the last two days shes started scratching quite a bit, vet has checked her, no fleas etc! Vet says puppies do scratch whilst growing into their skin?

However im wondering could it be the food, the first two days she had nutriment only and i saw no scratching.

Which is best please?

Hello.
Your breeder has done a good job of weaning your puppy on to a selection of different foods, you should be able to select which suits your puppy best.

The Pro-plan food appears to have a lot of grains and gluten with very little actual meat content. Unfortunately our modern and convenient kibbles contain a lot of difficult to digest grains with gluten (which can cause loose/soft smelly poo) and allergies such as itching, amongst many other problems
I would suggest that if your puppy's poo's are good and firm and she likes it, that you keep her on the raw Nutriment.

The Forthglade appears to be  an off the shelf product without any grains, looks like in pouches or trays, (I have never used this product but it is grain free). I have noticed that Forthglade are producing some frozen raw products.

I wean and rear my puppies onto raw (Natures Menu).
I have fed raw food for over 20 years, a problem free diet without any problems, just healthy dogs with no allergies, and good healthy mouths and teeth..

Of course, the itching could be something in your home or the puppies bedding. I would suggest that you do not use any detergents when washing puppies bedding and do not shampoo your puppy but just use warm clean water for cleaning her coat.  Raw fed dogs tend to not smell, this will help keep the shampooing/washing to a minimum.

Our lot only get bathed if they have rolled in fox poo or after a wet muddy day out working ( only warm water/shower used to remove the mud) nothing used on their bodies that would remove the natural oils in the coat causing possible dry flaky skin and itching.

Your question ; Which is the best ?
My answer; The RAW product is best.
.
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Thank you so much for this clear reply, just what I wanted to know.

I was hoping the complete dry food would be the one, just because its the most convenient, but her poop is twice the size on this and slightly runny , amazingly on the raw it is solid and very small. So i suppose that says it all?
I dont like the idea of raw food but if its better for them I will feed it. With this raw food should I add a plain kibble into it for crunch or not?

Im going to just feed her raw for the next few days to see if the itching stops too

Id never thought about possibly detergents causing issue and admit I've been washing her bedding & toys regularly trying to keep everything clean and nice.

Thanks again

Hi Sophie
I’m going through a similar experience with my ten month old pup and have tried her on a number of different foods for that reason (although as someone else has pointed out, the itching may be related to an environmental allergen rather than food) Have you considered cold pressed food? My pup does well on Guru and it’s safe to use with a raw diet if you wanted to combine the two for a while. I tried her in Forthglade cold pressed but it was a bit high in fibre for her and produced some pretty horrible stools!

You have used the correct word for kibble,  "convenient".
Raw can be just as convenient too, it's neatly frozen, there is no blood or mess, you just thaw and feed.

If you are using a "complete" raw mix, it should be completely balanced, and nothing else should be required.Some complete raw mixes may not have any bone  /  calcium or offal in the mix so it may be worth remembering this.

For extra crunch and good calcium Raw bones are the best.

Our dogs can and should have some edible bone 2 to 3 times each week NEVER cooked. If you want a crunchy bone that can be eaten, chicken wings are fantastic, or a chicken thigh with a bit more meat on it. Do remember that edible raw bones have a good nutritional value and should be included as part of daily rations and NOT an extra.
Bones for pleasure that can last a bit longer could be rib bones from lamb, pork or beef, shoulder blades are also good. Do you have a friendly butcher that may be able to help you?

Kibble would not be Ideal for  crunch, you may be offering the Grains/gluten and flavour enhancers, there are a lot of dogs who don't bother to crunch them but learn to swallow them whole! I have discovered a lovely biscuit for crunch and no grains, it is made with sweet potato. "Laughing dog" Gloriously"    Grain Free, Mixer meal.  Please remember that rice is a GRAIN, it  too can cause some allergies.

What breed of puppy do you have?

..

Hi Wait ok

So the Nutriment is a decent complete food then? My pup is a golden retriever

Hi there

Thanks for replying, I havent heard of guru so i will google it.  Im going to cut out the proplan for a few days and see if the itching stops, i never thought detergents could produce this sort of thing, could be that. Hopefully

Are you aware of this
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/glossary/screening-scheme.aspx?id=DNA+test+-+ICT-A&ReturnUrl=%2Fservices%2Fpublic%2Fglossary%2Fscreening-all.aspx

It’s becoming an issue for golden retrievers. Do you know if the sire and the dam were tested clear for this?

Hello there, the breeder is reputable and has had the breed for years, I know the hips, eye tests etc alldone. Not sure about this but sure would have been if it was a necessity. My pup has not got scaly skin etc just a bit of an itch so hopefully just a puppy thing.

I feed my dogs with the Dog's Butcher complete raw. I have on occasions used Forthglade if camping for more than a two or three days as I  am in a tent and keeping raw fresh can be a problem. I only feed the Forthglade varieties without rice though as rice makes one of my dogs sick.

Hi, my girl didnt like the forthglade shame as handier than the raw

Hi Sophie,
If your puppy likes the Raw Nutriment product that her breeder has weaned her onto, and her poo's are well formed and firm, I would suggest that you stick with it rather than start trying other brands and upsetting her tummy.
As far as I can see it is a nice product, if we did not have so many local suppliers/shops with the Natures Menu being sold I would definitely try the Raw "Complete" Nutriment.
As your puppy gets older you could maybe look around for suppliers who make cheaper raw mixes, Landywoods and Bulmers make nice raw minces with a selection of "Complete" choices, but if she and you, at the moment are getting on with the Nutriment then I see no reason to change her too soon!

.

I have fed raw for many years now and although I diy I do also use completes.

Something to be aware of is that not all completes are equal and can vary greatly .
As long as the nutriment  u are feeding contains  meat offal and bone and suits your dog then stick with it.  It is one of the better ones after the hundreds now available

Completes can vary greatly in the amounts of each component they contain and as to if the actually contain everything needed inspote of claims . So if u do decide to change at any point make sure u have learned  about feeding raw and what is really in the different completes or learn how to diy

Anyone feeding all raw diet and feeding bones for calcium a dog cant eat enough bones to get the required amount of calcium also need vitamin E a simple blood test will show if your dog is getting the right nutrients in there diet

Hiya

Yes you reright, he likes it and im sticking with it, dont think its too expensive and would rather feed a premium than a cheaper one.

Thanks for all your advice

Hi there

The food he is on is a complete premium, as far I can see all the vitamins needed are in it but i will double check

The are sophie. If u buy online from them u may be able to get it slightly cheaper if buying in bulk . Also they are quite helpful about their product uf u ring them

@oddser
Of course a dog can get enough calcium from the bones it eats. Are you saying that a wild dog or wolf needs blood tests?
If a whole rabbit or whole pheasant is eaten each of these would provide a "complete" meal with the correct amount of bone  for calcium needs!

Bones are packed full of vital nutrients.
Bones contain a huge number of nutrients that are vital to our dogs health.
These include:
; Minerals, including calcium, magnesium and phosphorous.
; protein-containing essential amino acids, including lysine.
:essential fatty acids.
; fat-soluble vitamins (A, D and E)
;blood forming nutrients  (these are in the marrow)  including copper and iron.

.

Yes but if you know better than everyone crack on

When washing bedding use non bio and see if that helps, no fabric conditioner but only make one change at a time because you need to know what it is thats causing her to itch. Also what you wash the floor with too can have an effect and if you have plug in air fresheners too. Lots of little things sometimes can irritate some dogs

Just curious Why just vitamin e .how about other vitamins and minerals  for example calcium and vit d ? Particularly  as u mention calcium.

Also where are u getting a simple blood test done ? Vets arnt usually that helpful even discussing raw . with many it gets tricky as they arnt usually in favour and know little about raw feeding  .

I've never even heard of doing blood tests for a dog that has been raw fed, unless you're really feeding a poor diet I wouldn't see the need for one.  People feed Bakers complete and don't see the need for a blood test! 

I do a DIY raw, have done for years, I occasionally mix in a bit of complete in the way of a tripe and chicken mix.  My dogs get a variety of bones from chicken frames, pork, lamb and beef bones, and even whole squirrel.  I also make stews which contain natural parasite prevention, garlic, turmeric, fenugreek and a few other herbs and spices.

I agree sleeping lion . What worries me is that people who are just starting out either get put off or start adding supplements willy nilly. That can do more harm than good
Better to do research into what is best to feed and if you arnt confident with diy then a reputable real complete

Just to put another slant on this - has the puppy had any vaccination.   I've known puppies scratch a lot (some) after their vaccination shots, especially at the v.site.

Blood test can be done for any dog whatever its diet is you can just have blood test to see what your dogs red blood cells are not good for dog if they are low which can be the case with lot of dogs not fed a balanced diet folk only know what other folk have told them about raw diet they need fiber

Can you advise how much fibre to use, and what is best to use?

When wild dog kill the first thing they eat is the animals stomach which is full of plants so most greens cabbage cale spinach carrots apple nettles are good always boil them they are full of iron put veg in blender feed raw or lightly cooked

Hi yes shes had the first injection but was scratching before this ☺️

We had a couple of puppies that were very itchy, they had no fleas and skin was not flaky or dry. They are 2 years old now and not an itch in sight!
All our dogs are Raw fed.
We do not wash our dogs unless they have rolled in fox poo or are covered in mud, and never use shampoo. all beds are washed in hot water only with NO detergent of any sort or conditioner.

I did use to wash down our kitchen floor and back yard with bleachy water (something I had done for years) which I stopped doing as a trial.
The puppies/youngsters, stopped their months of scratching and I no longer wash the floor or back yard with bleach in the water.

Still ok , 2 years later.

Maybe your dog is actually suffering from food allergies.