My clever bitch delivered 7 puppies in the early hours of Monday - 6 days ago. But she hasn’t taken to motherhood at all well. We are having to physically put her in the box to feed them and we have to wipe their bottoms to stimulate their bowels. Sometimes she takes over and she always lies down and let’s them feed and licks them but she keeps wanting to get out so we have to gently hold her there otherwise the puppies don’t get fed. They are growing fast! They’re ravenous because she’s not in the box with them all the time like a textbook mum would be so they can’t feed whenever they like.
She went off her food which made me increasingly anxious as the potential for her milk to dry up became huge the longer it went on. I was desperate to get some calories inside her and have tried everything in the book. The best home cooked meats and fresh fish etc. Nothing. Eats a bit and then leaves it.  Yesterday I gave her half a tin of canned puppy food and she wolfed it down. By the end of the day, she’s eaten really well. But at midnight last night, she had the most violent diarrhoea I’ve ever seen.
I was hoping someone could confirm my suspicions that this is because I have changed her diet so many times?
I have some clay from the vets which she had during a pregnancy stomach upset,  can I use this to firm up her poo now she’s nursing?
If it’s not the change in diet, how dangerous is it before treated to have a bug (although she hasn’t had contact with anyone other than my husband and I) around her babies? I will call the vet tomorrow but I’d just love some advice now. I am very worried.

Was she seen immediately after the whelping - she would probably have not been well before now BUT she could have retained birthing material which needs to be expelled.   Did she consume a lot of placenta - again it's a bit after the event, but that can make a bitch loose for sure.  It's very rich and most would only let her get to a couple.

What's going on could well just be down to the variety of food she's been having since whelping the litter.   I'd not be too alarmed re her milk supply because for about the first week, the puppies really don't need lashings of milk and as long as they are gaining by the day, at the moment they are probably fine.

It's not that unusual for a new mum not to want to be in with the puppies all the time - as long as she goes in willingly and lies down to allow them to nurse when they cry to be fed (usually every 2 hours 24/7) it's okay.   Does she stay with them overnight and are you sleeping in the room with them?   That would make life easier for you (not having to get up to let her in and out overnight at least!).  Some new mums find it hard to adjust from being a pet, to being a mum.

I'd call the vet today re this diarrhoea, and before you give her anything.   Most vets have an emergency number for when they are closed - their Service will pick up, take your details, phone the vet on duty who should call you back pretty much straight away.   I'd not wait for tomorrow.

Thanks MamaBas
I spoke to the vet this morning and she said to just give her the clay and bio support I already had here as she’d had an upset stomach the week before she whelped.
She did eat all but 2 of the placentas but I had her scanned and her calcium levels checked the next day and all was normal - including her temperature.

Thanks for the reassurance about her milk amounts.

Here’s the real problem. She does not go in willingly (maybe once in every ten times) I have to clean their bottoms so they don’t get constipated. When she sees me (from her hiding place under the bed) she comes out and takes over but I have to show her another pup further into the box so that she gets in.
When it’s feeding time (I’ve been advised every 75mins - or sooner if they’re crying and looking for her - heartbreaking) sometimes I have to drag her out from under the bed. Once she’s in there she lies down for them and cleans them. She knows what to do but she keeps trying to get out. I have to gently hold her in place so that the pups get fed. They are growing and healthy looking. It’s such a shame that she won’t go to them when they cry.

She had a chaotic birth. She never found a nest or a room she wanted to be in, and she never took to the whelping box (which I know can be normal until the last minute). She had the first three on the blankets on the floor. And the next four on the sofa (this is all in our large kitchen-living area where she spends most of her time) Once they were all born, we were advised to put her in the box and them onto her.
So all along she hadn’t had any autonomy or most importantly a safe place.
She was fine for the first day and on the evening of the second day she kept leaving them to dig in the corner where she had her first pup. And when they cried for her she just looked at me and cried.
She is obedient and well-trained but also spoilt in that she is pretty much allowed to go anywhere. She is also very attached to me.

I was advised to move the box into a quiet room away from the living area to encourage her to concentrate on her pups and her instinct.
It’s been very difficult. I try to stay calm for her but my stress levels (especially when she stopped eating and wouldn’t clean the box and puppies - went through  the roof.

I don't know about your stress levels, but the poor bitches stress levels are through the window.  Putting a pet in a quiet room away from the person she worships?  No wonder she's in such a state.  I have always slept with my bitches for the first several weeks, right next to them. 

She should be spayed in 12 weeks time so that she never has to go through this again.

Eating that many placentas would definitely contribute to diahorrea, that's a lot of rich stuff to upset a tummy.  I always give Pro - Kolin, which sounds similar to what your vet has prescribed.

So, I recommend, so that you don't have the need to drag her from anywhere,  that you are right next to her and her pups so that you can reassure her and stroke her.  All she wants is you.  If her stress levels continue to soar, then it really isn't fair to make her continue.  Just hand rear the pups yourself, feeding them every 2 hours, day and night until you can start the weaning process.

There is very little help out there on this subject. And as we all know, so many differing opinions on how to train snd care for dogs. It’s a minefield. I have read and learned so much useful information as well as a lot of dangerously misleading info too. If this post helps reassure or advise or at least let someone who’s going through a similar experience, the length of it’s writing will have been worth it!

To JeanSW
I really don’t care about my stress levels. I only care about her and of course I am with her all the time stroking and reassuring her. If you read the addendum I just added you will see just how difficult it is to know who to trust and what the best advice is.
She wasn’t concentrating on them when she was with us in the kitchen. She was ignoring them.
A canine behaviourist with post partum experience who is also a breeder advised this route.

If I don’t take her to them - they will starve.
I am trying to help her to keep those puppies alive. Everyone will be back together in the kitchen in a weeks time for the weaning.

> I am trying to help her to keep those puppies alive

Then how about hand rearing them for her.

Carrox16, I'm a behaviourist and trainer who is also a breeder.

Your bitch needs to be in a room where she feels safe and comfortable.  What that will be will differ from bitch to bitch.  It should be quiet.  And you should be there with her 24/7, sitting by the whelping box.  That's just the way it is.

Secondly, CALCIUM!!!!  Any sort of disturbed mothering behaviour needs CALCIUM.  And yes, I know you've been to the vet and the levels have been checked but experience of many breeders is that whilst the results there can be 'normal', supplementing with calcium sees problematic behaviours stop.  When a bitch is lactating, there is huge demand on her body for calcium.  Her body will mobilise and make use of stored calcium and it will be moved from bones into her bloods.  Therefore you can have calcium levels checked by a vet and it seems they are ok - but that's because her body is moving calcium into the blood at this time.  That doesn't mean that her own levels are not depleted, in terms of where it's come from....

If you don't believe me, try it - supplement with HIGH ENOUGH amounts of calcium (which will require a supplement - you won't get enough in her from food) and see if her behaviour improves.  You will need to know her usual weight before pregnancy to know how much to give....

Dear onetwothreefour

Thank you so much for that incredibly helpful and constructive advice. The room we have moved her to is one she likes to hide under the bed in when the house is noisy which is why we chose it for her. I am with her ALL the time.

I will go to the vet tomorrow and demand they give me a calcium supplement.

Thank you. I will report back.

To onetwothreefour

Or is there a supplement you can recommend. I will work out how much to give her based on her pre-pregnancy weight. Or is this something I do need to do through the vet? You have already talked in more informed detail about calcium. They are clearly not aware of the behavioural consequences of diminished supplies.
Thanks in advance.....

Is her whelping box enclosed, covered and dark, with only one side open, or is it simply a high sided box? They often feel a lot safer in a more den-like area, and could be why she's retreating under the bed. If it has no lid, putting it under a table (moved from another room if necessary) draped with blankets to keep it dark and warm could help her relax with them.

Carrox, the only supplement you can quickly get hold of, is Tums.  What does your bitch weigh?

onetwothreefour
She weighed 12.7k at vets last week......

onetwothreefour Holland and Barrett open in 45 mins.......
Thank you so much for your help....

onetwothreefour- a neighbour has just brought round calcium tablets - 500mg per tablet. Please can you tell me how much to give my girl...?

onetwothreefour the tablets I have are too high a dose. I’m going to pets at hone to get the Beaphar ones and hope there’s a dosage guide.....if not, I’d be really grateful for your advice....

I very much doubt they are too high a dose.  Based on her 12.7kg weight, she needs 8x Tums Extra Strength 750 per day.

(I'm assuming when you said that weight is from the vets last week, that is after she had whelped.)

I would not use your neighbour's tablets, because calcium is a weird subject.  You need to give a specified amount per weight of ELEMENTAL calcium.  Elemental calcium differs dependent on what type of calcium is used.  For example, your bitch needs 2543mg of elemental calcium per day.  That equates to 6520.51mg of dicalcium phosphate, 6358mg of calcium carbonate and 12715mg of calcium citrate.  Since not 'all' of calcium is 'elemental' calcium.  So you first need to look on the label and see what type of calcium is in your product, before you then know how much to give. 

But 500mg is not going to be anywhere near enough, whatever type it is.

onetwothreefour Yes that was her post whelp weight.

I have these:
https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/calcium-tablets-for-dogs-x-180?size=180?&istCompanyId=7255ccad-a1fc-4729-af31-478f79e5071c&istFeedId=84fabe95-ef22-40cd-8182-fa00a033ea14&istItemId=ititmwpxr&istBid=t#xd_co_f=ZDUzY2Y5NTYtZDc0Mi00NTc1LTkxNWEtN2M4NGE2MzFiNGQx~

Info on what kind of calcium is not specified, neither is the dose for a lactating bitch. Most unhelpful.
The box says each tablet or 108g but 10% calcium (unspecified type) only.

I am going to get Tums 750 now that I have someone here to watch over them all.

I cannot thank you enough - no-one I have spoken to in this whole process has been anywhere near as knowledgeable.

Try the Tums.  You should see an improvement within a couple of hours if it's going to work.

Divide the dose up over the day, so if she has 3 meals a day, give it with meals 3x a day...

onetwothreefour
THANK YOU!
For the first time in 5 days, she heard a puppy cry and she got into the box and hasn’t come out since. That was an hour ago!
I have never been more grateful to anyone in my life. Bless you.
I have to say, we also took advice from her breeder (who has been breeding this breed for over 30 years and has never seen this behaviour) She said the calcium thing was fascinating. She then said to bring her back into the kitchen but to put the box within a large pen so she doesn’t have a choice to go anywhere (like hide under the bed as she was doing) - only choice is to be with her pups.
She feels safer and more secure I can tell. She is calm and relaxed for the first time since she gave birth and she is happier to be with us, yet in her den.
The combination of a mineral deficiency and a fear of never having found her nest or den during pregnancy has led to the most difficult week of her little life. I am so relieved she is content and those puppies have their mother with them all the time, as it should be.
I really think someone should write a book about canine maternal behaviours - specifically problems. There is so much out there but so little one can trust.
Thank you so so much :)

I am so pleased for u and them . I have been rn reading with interest as the calcium debate has happened many times on this forum and as with any debate not everyone agrees.
Very interesting  to actually see it in action
For interest I looked up more about elemental  calcium and it there are some clear explanations to tell what is what . None i could see linking to your situation in the way u have used it unfortunately

Thank you. It really is like a miracle and pure chance that I included it in a post I originally wrote about something else. I need to copy and paste it under another title - "Disturbed Maternal Behaviours" for example so that other concerned owners can find onetwothreefour's brilliant advice......I'll have to try and work out how.....

Carrox, thank you so much for coming back to update us on this.  I can't take the credit for it though, because it is a very commonly 'done' thing with experienced breeders in the US - not something I came up with.  It works even when the vet-run tests say that calcium levels are fine.  We don't really understand the mechanism or what is going on, but when breeder after breeder after breeder tries it for themselves in these circumstances and has the results you've had, then people see first-hand that it works.  But it is very much passed about by word of mouth from breeder to breeder and not something which vets (yet) know about due to the absence of any research.  (There is no incentive to do any research because there's not a lucrative drug at the end of it - just calcium!)

So - keep up the calcium supplementation and don't be tempted to slack off with it yet.  The highest demand is yet to come, it will be when the pups are 3-4 weeks and just before they are weaned - so she will likely need it until then, and you could then taper off gradually by reducing.

Has the diarrhoea stopped?