Hi everyone this is my first post my [bitch] has just given birth to a litter of 9 beautiful puppies.
I am just looking for some advice and opinions really on a situation I've found myself in with the stud dogs owner.
Basically at breeding time we had agreed that he wanted to keep a puppy for himself and he wanted first refusal also pretty standard during breeding I think ??

About halfway through the pregnancy he decided he didnt want to keep a pup due to obviously already having one dog and he would of wanted a boy which I highly doubt would get on with its father once mature.

So skip to now the puppies were born yesterday and straight away hes on my case saying which puppy he wants and that hes going to take it at 8 weeks then sell it himself for the same amount as I would sell if for.
To this I've said at this stage since the pup isn't being kept I'd rather not do this and would sell the pup myself as is always breeders responsibility anyway and he can have the 500 from one pup.
Its turned into a massive row over pick of the litter basically
I'm saying it makes no difference which pup he has as it's getting sold and proceeds go to him.
But hes saying I've gone back on the agreement ... which was that he picks and keeps one .
The reason I'm not happy with pick of the litter in the case that it's to be sold anyway is that I wont be able to see how the new owner gets on with the pup and that they are a match if that makes sense and with all the [dogs] already ending up in shelters I really want to see how each and every pup interacts with the potential owners so I can be as sure as possible that it will be there forever home
and to me 500 is 500 regardless of which pup it's from.
Sorry for the essay and terrible grammar ect
I thank you in advance for any views and guidance you can give me
Dan
What are your thoughts

Do you have a written agreement with the stud owner regarding this?
Essentially he is being a 3rd party sales person. If he gets his money anyway why does he need to take a pup to sell it on? You can hand that cash straight over to him unless someone wants a pup which you may find not suitable?
If you have nothing written i would give him his money and tell him to do one.
If he has a buyer for this pup ask them to contact you because you as the breeder want the contract with the person buying this pup.
Do you have the sires kc reg number to register the litter?

I would want to know why he wants to do it like this because it makes no sense what so ever to want to do it in the way he is asking

Nothing is written it was a verbal agreement I would of had no issue him keeping a pup for hiself and choosing on looks alone as if any issues arose I could take the pup back as hes closeby in the area. Because he had decided against this I've offered price of a pup to which hes kicking off saying he not getting to pick. To me it's much more important that the pups are old enough and have developed a personality that the new potential owner can decide upon. He has no buyer lined up at all and in my opinion probably wouldn't care enough to ensure its gets a forever home. But to him even though hes not keeping one now it's more important to him that he picks a certain pattern colour ect at one day old to then just sell on anyway.
One of the reasons I feel so strongly on this is the number of [dogs] that end up in shelters. I need to be 100% that the homes will be forever homes and will do this not by selling them purely on looks but by seeing the interactions between pup and potential owner and having them make there decision on the pups personality once developed.
Thanks for your reply by the way much appreciated

Picking at a day old is crazy. 
Like you say you want to be responsible in finding the right homes, colour should be the last thing, its about matching the right homes with the right puppy for them.

Also if something did go wrong and the buyer wanted to return  pup . would he take it back or would they have your details so you could step in.

All sounds very odd to me and agree with SJ . totally crazy, especially at this age , so much can and will change.

Think I would be inclined to give him the  money at the appropriate time and leave it at that

when you give him the money make out 2 receipts- one for him, one for you both signed by both of you saying full and final settlement of stud fee.
tell him he can pick which pup the money is based on-- but its sold from your address with you picking owner. he still has pick then.
better still tell him he can have that money now provided signs receipt and goes away..
sounds to me like he has found someone himself who wants one of the pups though

Dan, my thoughts are that this is bonkers at so many points it's hard to know where to start...

>Basically at breeding time we had agreed that he wanted to keep a puppy for himself and he wanted first refusal also pretty standard during breeding I think ??

It's not pretty standard, it's a request the stud owner can make - but you don't have to agree.  I strongly strongly recommend - for the purpose of avoiding this and many other complicated situations - that you never agree to this again.  I never would.  You are the breeder.  You decide where pups are placed.  Not him.

>the puppies were born yesterday and straight away hes on my case saying which puppy he wants and that hes going to take it at 8 weeks then sell it himself for the same amount as I would sell if for.

As someone else has already mentioned, he is then acting as a third party.  It is about to be illegal in the UK for 3rd parties to sell puppies.  Puppies must be sold by the breeder and viewed with the mother.  Even if it's not totally illegal yet, you are clearly not working to best practice if you allow this to happen when it's about to be banned next year:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48249333

>To this I've said at this stage since the pup isn't being kept I'd rather not do this and would sell the pup myself as is always breeders responsibility anyway and he can have the 500 from one pup.

Totally right.

>But hes saying I've gone back on the agreement ... which was that he picks and keeps one .

Unless the agreement is in writing, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.  And even if it were in writing, if you also had in writing his decision NOT to keep a pup during pregnancy, that would supercede whatever previous arrangement you'd made.

>The reason I'm not happy with pick of the litter in the case that it's to be sold anyway is that I wont be able to see how the new owner gets on with the pup and that they are a match if that makes sense and with all the [dogs] already ending up in shelters I really want to see how each and every pup interacts with the potential owners so I can be as sure as possible that it will be there forever home

You are totally right and sound like a responsible breeder to me.

I think you should tell him you will either BACs him £500 or deliver him £500 cash if he prefers, but that the option of having a pup - whether for himself or to sell - is totally off the table.  If he wants to discuss it further, tell him he can discuss it with your lawyer.  And whatever he says back to you, just keep repeating that - he can discuss it with your lawyer.  And if you want a bit more support, give Trevor Cooper at Dog Law a call - it will cost about £50 for a phone consultation but they will be able to tell you exactly where you stand legally so you know exactly what to say to him:  https://www.doglaw.co.uk

Thanks for breaking everything down so clearly and understandable it is very helpful to know about the law that's soon to be
I was never going to let him have a pup to take but just needed help with how to explain it to him the fact that the law is about to say this is very helpful
Many thanks

So far as law is concerned, an agreement need not to be in writing in order to be an agreement. Verbal agreement is just as legally valid. But if as you say the agreement had since changed, then of course the "latest version" is the one that would count.

However in the dog world the problem is extremely rarely about the law, but about your reputation within the breed, your relationships with other breeders stud owners etc. I would therefore try to resolve the matter so that you are on good terms with the stud owner. Perhaps he has found a buyer willing to pay twice the price, and is reluctant to tell you about it?

P.S. in order to tell him he can discuss it with your lawyer, you first need to have a lawyer. Lawyers are expensive, it will cost way more than the price of a phone consultation in order for one to act on your behalf. For this reason alone I wouldn't even think about going this route.

Perhaps he has found a buyer willing to pay twice the price, and is reluctant to tell you about it?

That crossed my mind.

But hes saying I've gone back on the agreement ... which was that he picks and keeps one He would actually be going against what you agreed if he sells the pup, as the agreement was that he keeps it. He's also the one that changed the goal posts part way though the pregnancy. I agree with what others have said, give him the equivalent of the price of a puppy and tell him to walk. The only issue you could have would be if he tries to tell the KC it wasn't his stud dog that was used when it comes to registering the litter.

I think for reassurance for u I would speak to trevor cooper dog law . It may give u strength  to know how to deal with him without risking your reputation  if u intend to breed in future

....... which is EXACTLY why I took a stud fee at the time of the service (which in my day, was usually the price puppies were selling for, but in my breed at least, puppy prices have galloped ahead of stud fees!).    If there were to be a take -back puppy agreement, then IT WOULD BE IN WRITING so there should be no misunderstanding.

There's NO WAY I'd part with a puppy knowing full well it's going to be sold on, (to where?) so the best I can suggest in this situation, is to hand him the cost of a puppy - as the STUD FEE.   That way you have paid your dues for the stud service, and can be shot of this man.   

Normally speaking, the breeder/owner of the dam OWNS her puppies.   But you do owe this man for the STUD SERVICE.   So again, pay him off and that should end this.   And next time, make sure you either have any agreement in writing, or pay for the stud service there and then.  Otherwise there can be more tears.   Older/more experienced, and wiser.   Oh and have signed receipts for any money changing hands - one for him, one for you.

ps    Even if there's a gap between stud fees and puppy prices in your breed, you may have to give in and give him the price of a puppy which is sad.  Puppies in my breed now go for around £1K but stud fees are generally half that.   Also, you do need to keep him 'sweet' as he'll need to sign the Registration paperwork as the owner of the stud dog.

Is it due to the colour he is 'picking' being one where he could ask for more money from someone by advertising it as a 'rare' colour. Maybe as he now knows you have a blue, purple or green dog he wants that one to sell at a premium.

I had thought this but I've told him he can have any potential buyer sent to me to pick whichever pup they want and I'll just make sure they seem suitable then they'll pay him whatever is agreed between them 2 but he still is kicking off about it
Its extremely concerning as it seems he doesn't want me to know where the puppy ends up

Do you think he might intend to export the puppy?
You could apply endorsements just in case.

When registering the puppy fully endorse it for all the opptunes in fact do the whol e litter and tell him after the fact in my opinion some thing is differently off

I'd definitely be putting endorsements on the entire litter (other than the one you keep yourself).   And do get legal advice because this man sounds really difficult!  

Incidentally going back to your first post, no, from my experience at any rate, it's NOT 'pretty standard' for the stud dog owner to have a puppy back, and certainly not 'pick'!!   As we only bred for our next generation, I wanted pick!!!  And even if you have a good sized litter, what would have happened had your bitch only produced 1 or 2 puppies!!