Okay. This is a very hard topic for me to discuss and i really need some advice.

So my children and I made the choice to get a puppt last month. I have no experience with puppies so I have to do plenty of research before we decided to go for it. I was prepared for mess, sleepless nights, discipline, boundaries and less freedom.

I knew it was important that  I  found a good breeder, met the pups parents, I researched how to choose a puppy out of a litter etc etc. It came down eventually  to between two breeders.  One was full of information, a very nice person, put no pressure on me and I felt reassured that this was a good breeder whi cated about her dogs wellbeing. So I made the trip to meet the breeder and see the pups. 

She introduced me to the litter and the mother. The pups mother was a lovely dog with a gorgeous calm temperament. This was important to me as my son can be a bit nervous. I met the older sister of the pups (same mother and father). Again she was lovely, affectionate and sweet tempered.

When it came to choosing the pup i chose a 'middle of the road' pup. Not the demanding dominant ones, not the shy quivering ones but the one who played and had fun yet was calm and unimposing. I felt i did the best zi coyld to make the right choice for my family.
  We brought her home and she was super quiet for two days but also affectionate and responsive. After two days she began to perk up and get more confident so we were happy to see that.

With that came the  biting and here lies our problem. Okay at first it was no problem. puppies bite of course.. But now its been four weeks and her biting is relentless. Its not aggressive at first, its her play. However it hurts and when she is told NO it becomes a bigger problem. She does not seems to care one bit if my voice changes from pleasent to stern. In fact it seems to rile her. It is now apparent that she is a very heastrong pup. She does not like to be told off.  Any rubbing her turns into biting. The kids find it hard to handle her. She snaps at hands, feet and face. She does control her bite but it still frightenes them. I've tried yelping (it seems to excite her), I've tried being stern (she responds in kind), I've tried removing her from the room ( she claws and whines to get back). Ive tried deflection and positive reinforcement. This has worked the best but still minimally. She pushes my patience to its limit and at times her biting is so constant and forceful that it really drains me and takes all my fondness for her away.

Now she has her good points too.  She is affectionate. Shes not a big barker. I can leave her locked in the living room for 1-3 hours and she will go to sleep without complaint. Her chewing is managable. She has already learned to obey to sit, give paw, wait before eating etc. In truth we do love her. We are all so fond of her and we have established a bond.

However, she's definitly not timid in any way, and she definitly does not have an easy temperment. I cant quite trust her and I really worry about how she'll be as an adult. The vet has suggested I have a right to be worried from what I've described. The vet suggessted that some cocker spanials can be problematic for life and she may be one of them. At the same time maybe if I persist with good socialization and training she will eventually succumb?

And heres the kicker! Listen to this. The breeder admitted to me last week that my pup did not belong to the litter I saw. She was in fact the last pup left from an older litter..older by one week. And the breeder had put her in with the second litter. The mother I met was not her mother. The  older sibling I met was not her sibling. I never met any of her parents, never saw their temperment. Breeder apologised for the deceit and offered a full refund if I want to bring back the dog. I feel utterly duped and I am so disappointed.

Can anyone offer me some insight or advice. I dont want to give her back. Neither do my kids. She can be so sweet and lovely too.  But I'm worried she needs a different family, a more experienced owner and perhaps no kids.  I'm worried if i give her back she'll be put to sleep. Im worried I'll regret it forever if I give her back.  But I'm also worried that if we keep her we will be stuck with a difficult and aggressive dog.

Help! And thanks, I know its a long read.

None of the problems with the puppy's behaviour seems like anything out of the ordinary for a high energy pup but my first question would have to be if this is a show type or working type Cocker? The working lines are much more full on and less suitable as pets and would be best off with experienced owners.

It's utterly unforgivable that the breeder lied to you about the pup's parents. The fact that there was a litter just a week older also makes you wonder if this is somebody breeding as a business, which is a red flag.

I doubt the pup would turn aggressive, and I doubt it would be put down if you returned it -it would probably be resold though, maybe to other people also not being told the truth.

Personally I would say that it comes down to how much training you are prepared to put into this pup, and if it is a working type, how much you are prepared to do in future.
It would be interesting to find out more about how you found the breeder, is the pup KC registered, were you asked questions about your reasons for wanting a dog, experience etc?

What you have described is perfectly normal puppy behaviour and you should not be overly worried about, puppies are often nicknamed Land Sharks with good reason.
When you have a problem like this it’s easy to think it’s never going to end and you will have the worst dog ever, I promise you it won’t be like that.

Your puppy is playing like she might do with her siblings and she needs to learn that humans are delicate and can’t take this kind of play, this is known as bite control. I see you have tried several things, but how long are you trying each of them? It does take time for a puppy to learn that biting is not acceptable and chopping and changing may well be confusing for the puppy and not teaching her. Saying no in a stern voice won’t work very well as apart from the fact she doesn’t know what No means she just thinks it’s part of the elaborate game she’s playing with you.
My golden retriever was like this. I tried stuffing a toy in her mouth every time she launched herself at my hand, but it didn’t work too well as she wanted to chew my fingers as they were part of me and that’s what she wanted, my attention. Withdrawing that attention was what worked for me.
I would get to my feet and go and stand in the corner of the room, arms crossed and totally ignoring her. She would jump up trying to get me to react, but I didn’t and she would finally give up and sit down looking sad and lost, that was when she got my attention back. But this took quite a bit of time to get her to realise that the moment she tried to bite me then my attention went and she was ignored. I had to do this every single time, but my finally she got it and the biting began to lesson round about 14 - 16 weeks.
I also found that giving her something really tasty to chew on helped, toys don’t cut the mustard, but a calf hoof (as smelly as they are) was far nicer to her, so her need to chew and bite went on that and she began to leave me alone.

So, equip yourself and the children with tough jeans and probably wellies so you all don’t get hurt when she jumps up, and when she bites all get up and stand in the corner totally ignoring her. Do this every time and it will work. Tell the children to become trees if she chases about after them jumping up and biting, it might be better to stop the children running about until the pup has learned not to bite and grab clothes

As to the breeder, yes it was very wrong of her not to tell you that the puppy you chose was not from the same litter and has different parents. I take it the puppy is not KC registered with a 5 generation pedigree demonstrating parentage?

sounds like a normal puppy to me. they all bite. they are all full on.  they are all hard work.  I have a 4 month old whippet puppy and she can be a complete git at times.  they all have good points and bad ones- mine has a charming habit of peeing when she hears me wake up- I have not got a hope in hell of opening back door first as the excitment it all too much. a flood every morning is not fun- but with patience it will pass.  she also loves to bite my husband- improving but its more training husband then pup as she is stoppable provided do not accidently encourage the madness.

it sounds like maybe getting a puppy while you have small children is really just too much and thats understandable and hard to predict how one will cope. as the breeder has offered to take her back then that is at least an option . she won't be put down- she's a little pup that will be easy to rehome.  if you really want to keep her them pay a good trainer to come to your home and teach you how to manage her-or indeed to assess her behaviour as a cold professional eye and give you an opinion on whether the situation is fixable.  if a good dog behaviourist thinks she is too much to manage in your home that will make decision for you.

breeder has been dreadful telling such lies and on that basis alone would not blame you for returning her but whatever you do will not be an easy decision. she really does not sound like an unusual puppy though.

http://www.cockersonline.co.uk/discuss/index.php?topic=64170.0 u might find this useful and by  coincidence although  it applies to all pups it is on the.cocker spaniel forum
Things will get better and a decent positive reward based trainer could be of great help .have a .look on the apdt website for some in your area
Never use anyone who talks punishment pack leader  or uses harsh  physical methods
Btw vets arnt always.the best to  assess dog behaviour .doesn't sound like.there is a need to worry your puppy just sounds ds like a normal  pup as others have said and also as goldimal says the working lines do tend to be more full on than show cockers  its what u do from here that is important

That's very helpful thanks. I think jeans and wellies is sound advice. The ignoring is nigh high impossible to do because she bites as we are ignoring her. If i walk awzy she jumps onto our legs in a vice grio nipping and it hurts so you can't help but react! My kids are not small. Theu are 11 and 12 but they are not boisterous and my daughter finds it hard to stand her ground with the pup so she run and jumps on the couch to escape her.

All your replies are very reassuring and this is what i really want to believe. The breeder is registered with the kennel club yes. Im tempted to report her as i feel she treated me very wrongly. And she was so nice. Even her texts admitting to the deceit was so apologetic and nice. I'll never be sble to trust my insticts again.

it sounds like maybe getting a puppy while you have small children is really just too much

I agree.  Your family is not prepared for a puppy.  You should return and get your money refunded.

Tupical puppy behaviour & saying NO is pointless as dogs don't understand individual words & it's the sound that they can be taught to react to, but they do need to be taught.

You say ignoring is impossible, so do what an adult dog does when the attentions of a young puppy become too much, they remove themselves from the reach of the puppy ie go out of the room & shut the door behind you until the puppy calms down. However everyone has to do the same thing & if your children will not comply then they should have no contact with your puppy unsupervised.

Yelping, shouting, removing the puppy are all rewarding the puppy for the biting behaviour, removing yourself/ or who ever is interacting with the puppy, is unrewarding for the puppy as they no longer are getting a reaction.

Have you bothered to do any form of training(not playing)which involves the puppy having to offer a behaviour to be rewarded ? In other words meke the puppy use it's brain rather than it's body ? Look up Kikopup on Youtube for ideas & correct use of a clicker. Karen Pryor is also a good source of help.

Finally no dog tries to"dominate"humans, they are aware humans are not dogs. If your dog doesn't learn using one method if training doesn't make it stubborn, it means you aren't using the method that works so try another. The only wrong method is one using force or fear or both( eg Ceasar Millan style)

Breeders cannot be registered with a Kennel Club, a KC only registers dogs. Did you get the puppy's registration & pedigree ?

I notice you live in Ireland, is the puppy IKC registered ?

you really do need a dog behaviourist/trainer to come and teach you how to manage her.  but in meantime go up any pet shop and go buy a large bottle of bitter apple spray -its an anti chewing spray that tastes vile. spray your trousers with it.  does not work on all puppies but those who it does work on it works well for removing some of the fun of nipping at legs.

I’m not convinced anything really prepares you for a puppy!

My 4 month old Papillon is just about starting to play in a way that doesn’t draw blood with bites from his needle-sharp puppy teeth, and if he gets very riled up it’s almost like he’s back to square one. You wouldn’t think something so tiny could cause so much pain but really he can’t help it, it’s the only way puppies know how to interact.

Ian Dunbar recommends teaching the puppy to bite softly before you teach it not to bite at all, and that’s the idea I’m going with. We started with allowing medium-strength bites, and moved gradually to the current state which is gentle bites and mouthing only. In the future we won’t allow teeth to contact skin at all.

Like others have said, taking away your attention seems to work pretty well, but don’t expect instant results - it will take weeks of consistency for your puppy to get the idea. I recommend a playpen or baby gates or something like that, so as soon as you get a hard bite you can move away leaving them behind the barrier. I praise every time he touches a toy or chew, I praise licking, I praise bites where he’s clearly inhibiting the strength. But a hard bite? Grabbing my arm so he can hump? Grabbing clothing? “Ragging” me in any way? I’m out of there for 30 seconds until he’s calmed down a bit.

It’s also worth remembering that crazy puppy biting can mean other things too. Puppies that are overtired, overstimulated, hungry, or need to poo will often go into almost a biting frenzy where they can’t think at all and you just can’t teach them anything.

It sounds awful but I’m a big fan of enforced naps. Pups need 16-20 hours of sleep a day and most of them won’t nap enough on their own. I don’t need to do it so much now but when I first got River we’d have an hour of activity (playing, walking, meals, training, cuddles, whatever) and then two hours in the crate for down time where hopefully he’d get a decent sleep. Like human toddlers, they think they don’t need to sleep! And also like human toddlers, they absolutely do.

The biting does calm down when the puppy grows up, honestly. I’m expecting River to be more mouthy when he starts teething (about 16-18 weeks for most) but calm down again as he gets his adult teeth.

I completely agree about the need for sleep or to poo being triggers for hectic, bitey behaviour. And also high pitched or excited voices are very stimulating. Calm voices and calm behaviour work best (even when pup is hanging by its teeth from your sleeve).

My younger cocker is now 7 years old, but as a pup could be a horror. He’s now a delight (most of the time ). If you follow the link given by furriefriends you’ll find that you’re not alone in having a “cockerdile”. They mostly grow up to be super dogs.

Evening time is the worst, usually aroun 6 - 8pm. Even at 6 years old Isla is still restless at this time.

I found the best thing was to plop her into the crate with a Kong to lick out and leave her to it. Would peep round the door ten minutes later and she would be out for the count

I feel that the puppy overtired bitey time in the evenings is to just expend that last bit of energy before conking out for the night

I find the trick is to understand that puppies are no different than babies. Remember how it was like - the only time you could leave a baby without actively paying it attention was when baby was asleep. Puppies are just the same. They need attention every minute they are awake.

Don't put your puppy in the crate and "hope he’ll fall asleep", instead teach him that the crate is a nice place to sleep. Not to be locked in, but to sleep. Then when it's time to put him there he WILL fall asleep.

As others  suggested, arm yourself with a lot of tasty treats and a lot of interesting things to do with the puppy. I use distract attention method very often with my pups. A handful of tasty kibble thrown on hard floors rolling around works a charm even at the most "carried away" moments - the pup starts hunting the kibble, looking for the last pieces of it, and completely forgets what he was doing before. The moment the last piece is found and devoured, I show the pup that I have some more: "Do you want more? Let's do something to earn it." And we do few exercises. Once the exercises are done, I find another activity to occupy a puppy, e.g. garden play or a kong chew or a tug toy etc. When the puppy is tired I put him in his bed (crate, puppy pen, etc - the pups "own" place) and sit next to it, talking to the pup stroking him through the bars until he falls asleep. Then I have couple of hours to myself until the pup wakes up and I immediately let it out, and we do things together, food, activities exercises etc. Rinse, repeat! High energy puppies (labs, terriers, cockers and similar) are hard work while they are small.

Great advice from monkey . just to add u can take.the treats u are giving from his normal food allowance so he isn't being over fed .
Meals dont have to be in the bowl all the time as long as pup gets their food allowance per day

> Don't put your puppy in the crate and "hope he’ll fall asleep", instead teach him that the crate is a nice place to sleep.

Yes, definitely. I have to clarify that River was already used to being crated and has always slept in there. Locking a non-crate-trained puppy up and expecting them to calm down by themselves is definitely a recipe for disaster.

I wanted to add as well that I think impulse control games have helped River a lot as a high-energy pup. He just basically didn’t have the ability to control himself at first. Learning “wait” and “drop it” and “leave it” and things like that were really hard for him at first but he’s improving a lot and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we managed a fairly energetic play session this afternoon where he got very excited but didn’t attempt to bite me at all and just focused on the toy.

I’ve also started “capturing calmness” (Kiki pup has a good video about that on YouTube) to help him to learn to relax around my rabbits. Everyone is safely separated by crates and baby gates as necessary but he gets very excited and desperately wants to play with them, and of course they aren’t interested in a bouncy little puppy - he needs to learn some chill. I look for physical signs of relaxation and mark-reward. (Control Unleashed The Puppy Program by Leslie McDevitt is my bible here.)

I like the Kikopup videos, very sensible lady and a good trainer

There's a video called 'don't mug the hand' which is good for impulse control and I also think it helped to stop Isla wanting to bite my hands.

> The only wrong method is one using force or fear or both( eg Ceasar Millan style)

One million % agree.

As others have said this is all perfectly normal puppy behaviour, I'm currently working hard with my 26th pup (over 50+ years) and although all the previous ones have grown up to be great dogs that I've adored and loved I can honestly say that there are times with every single pup when I've been in tears and wondered why I wanted another one   thankfully they all live long enough to make you forget how awful pups are. We look at the easy, well behaved adults that we adore and think how lovely it would be to get another one!

The link posted above to 'The bite stops here' is excellent, it absolutely works with every single pup, you just have to be consistent and persevere. Try not to alter your training techniques, stick to the same methods, gentle, force free, treat based training like Kikopup will create a wonderful bond with your pup.

It’s a weird one isn’t it - everyone seems to be surprised how difficult puppies are, even if they have previous puppy experience.

I think all we see is everyone else’s “perfect” puppies on social media and out in public and don’t realise what little terrors they actually are behind closed doors...

Everyone we meet comments on how calm and well behaved River is when we’re out, but they don’t see all the nonsense he gets up to at home! They just see an adorable little dog of a breed they aren’t familiar with who loves people and dogs and is very gentle with children, happily accepting cuddles and giving kisses. Even when I show them the bite marks they don’t really believe how much hard work he is.

It must be like having a baby, when you go into labour you swear never again, but somehow you forget all the pain when you choose to have another!

I would say you've had all the comments I would make about this situation.   Fact is, with some more outgoing puppies, yelping and shouting for biting, just brings them back for more --- 'yipee I'm getting a reaction'!    In the litter, a puppy being attacked would probably yelp, but more significantly, turn away to end the situation.   It's the turning away you have to copy, if the puppy has got that worked-up/excited.  And that usually happens when the puppy is getting over-tired.  I suggest you do say No Biting, but take the puppy outside to empty and back to where she sleeps and I'd recomment using a crate, set up in your living area by day with a cover across top and sides.   If you leave the door open, she'll probably start to use it as any other dog bed.  

As for having a left-over puppy from a litter only a week earlier - this would suggest a red flag situation to me....... it can happen that a breeder does two litters close together, but with people who only breed for their next generation, not often!    At best, deceiving you like that wouldn't impress me but whether you take this puppy back, when she seems to be doing what most puppies do until they learn how to behave, is up to you really.  Did you find this breeder via the relevant Breed Club?   What you do about this deceipt again is up to you.   Of course she sounds nice and apologises now she has your money!!   At best, what's happened is very poor practice and I do wonder why she felt unable to be honest with you about this puppy??

Thank you all for your very thoughtful advice.  I was at my wits end when i started the thread and I feel very much reassured by all of you. I guess she's a normal puppy and I just need to work hard at training her.  Im definitly ready and willing to do what needs to be done. My lack of experience with pups combined with the shadiness of the breeder led me to the fear that I had been given a troubledome dog that would need more experience than i could give. Your posts have reassured me that she's normal and I can do this.

we all feel like that with puppies!  they are super cute for a reason-no one would put up with the horrible little gits if they weren't! 

I would recommend you sign your pup up with a Kennel club good citizan scheme puppy class. the trainers will teach you how to manage her and you also you get to see other peoples little horrors who will do things equally appalling-and see them develop nice manners.

you have picked a lovely breed for a family pet-a little professional assistance and you will both do well.

The IKC Good Citizen type scheme