Hi everyone,

My first post on here but I’ve been reading through all of the posts and all of your amazing advice.

My bitch whelped last night all went well, it’s her first litter she’s had 8 pups.
I slept in the living room with her a checked her a couple of times over night and all seemed well.

This morning she seems a bit more distressed and leaves the pups to come and sit in the sofa with me but if they cry she goes back to them.

My biggest worry is she has her whelping box but a bed next to it also and she keeps removing the same puppy from the whelping box digging at the bed with it in her mouth and laying in the bed with it and then just watching the others through the door of the whelping box.

She’s also whining a little bit.

Am I panicking over nothing or should I be concerned? I’ve put the puppy back in the box and she’s now laid with them all but I’m sitting right next to the box now and feel like if I move she’s going to do it again. As a first time mum is she maybe just a bit bewildered?

She needs CALCIUM. 

Any sort of distressed or unsettled behaviour after whelping, any sort of poor mothering or restlessness, is an indication that a bitch needs calcium.  Her body is withdrawing huge amounts of calcium from itself to begin lactation.  This can lead to dangerously low calcium levels.  Whilst it is often not low enough to result in the medical emergency which is eclampsia, these 'lesser' signs are an indication of the need for calcium...

You will not be able to provide enough calcium through ice-cream, goats milk or dairy products - a bitch would need multiple tubs of vanilla ice cream a day to get enough.  Instead you need to be supplementing with a calcium supplement. 

How much does she weigh?  (Pre-pregnancy weight?)

she weighs around 22kg pre pregnancy she seems to have settled a bit now.

I will look into calcium supplements now. Also how long should I feed her calcium

Thank you

For 22kg, she needs 4404mg of elemental calcium daily.  There are many different types of calcium (calcium citrate, calcium carbonate etc etc) and the whole product is not elemental calcium.  You need to look on data sheets to see how much elemental calcium is in any specific product.

The easiest to get hold of, is Tums Extra Strength 750 - she would need 15 of these Tums tablets a day.

That's what I mean, when I say it's a lot - to get the same amount in ice-cream would be 26 cups of ice-cream a day.

You need to give calcium for as long as the bitch needs it.  For some, that can be the whole time they are lactating.  My own bitch has 3.5wk old pups at the moment and she is still on calcium.

Rather than to go immediately to a lack of calcium, did you have your vet check her over immediately after you thought she'd finished whelping - and check her puppies for things you might have missed at the same time?    Could be she has retained birthing material or even a dead puppy in there.   So before you start over-supplementing her, from info. gained from strangers, however well-meaning, involve your vet.

I have never had a problem with low calcium in our litters.   Not to say your bitch won't need calcium, but I'd not immediately think she does!   And yes, some of our domesticated pets do have trouble when faced with rearing a litter .... the pull of instinct vs. what we have done with our pets.

There are SO many bitches who need calcium but it's not recognised that they do, MamaBas.  BReeders think they are poor mothers or stressed - or - my favourite which is often repeated here, that it's the 'uterus contracting back down to size' after giving birth. 

If that's the case, why does it stop 'contracting back down to size' when the bitch is given calcium? 

Giving calcium can do NO harm whatsoever, so actually the best thing to do is to give it (at the right quantity to be effective) and see if it makes a difference.  If not, then maybe consult the vet.

I wouldn't consult the vet with what the OP has described because the majority of vets (as we often say on here) know nothing about reproduction and will err on the side of caution and the bitch will be taken to the surgery, separated from her puppies, exposed to disease risk at the vet's, undergo stressful experiences like x-rays or ultrasounds - all when giving some calcium would likely have avoided all of that...

I would say that the bitch shouldn't be 'joining you on the sofa':  You should be right in front of the whelping box, with the bitch and puppies - day and night.  If you go elsewhere, you create conflict in the bitch who wants to be with you, her owner, and also with her newborn puppies.  You should be sitting right outside the box and sleeping right outside the box...

A lack of calcium could be one reason for this, although it's not classic eclampsia. But I wouldn't bother with Tums or ice cream (not a lot of calcium in most ice creams nowadays!) or any other homespun treatments, but instead I'd give ColloCal-D which has calcium and vitamin D in the correct proportions and is formulated with this purpose in mind. Usually just two or three days treatment is needed. And actually giving too much calcium can paradoxically lead to exclampsia!

Just out of interest, did yougive calcium supplements during the bitch's pregnancy?

My girl was very unsettled the day after, we knew she was defernatly finished as had a section, so we got some calcium tablets from pets at home and started giving them and she settled right down. Although my girl was a rather hands off mother and didn't spend much time in the box at all, she would much rather feed her pup on the sofa and sleep there than stay in the box.

> giving too much calcium can paradoxically lead to exclampsia!

This is not true.

>This is not true.

The VCA would disagree with you. "Excessive calcium intake during pregnancy or nursing can suppress parathyroid hormone production and increases the risk of developing low blood calcium levels or eclampsia." (My bold)

OP - Again, before you do any of this calcium supplementing, please talk to your vet.   I don't think there are many, if any, vets here.   And what works for one individual and their bitches, may well not for others.

With the internet, 'a little knowledge is (can be) a dangerous thing'.    Be careful.

ps   The link given here (above) is relevant.  Scroll down to the paragraph on Prevention.

Don't give her calcium without first having a blood test to check whether she actually needs it. It is a 10 min test at the vets, and not particularly costly.

Her behaviour sounds completely normal for the first two-three days after birth. Everything hurts inside her right now, because her birth organs are still contracting expelling things etc. That is why she digs, because of the pain. That is why she tries to find a safe comfortable place, as she feels particularly vulnerable because of the pain, and a bed would seem a good idea to her.

It is a matter of being with her all the time for now, not allowing her to carry pups around too much, just calm her stroke her and she will settle. This post-birth pain come and goes in waves, so it's when it is particularly painful that she would get distressed so you need to keep an eye on her that's all.

Thank you for this response.

I did phone the vets yesterday and explain my worries they said that needing calcium is rare and if I’m still concerned today to call them back but she has totally settled down.

I think I was just over worrying and wanted to do best by her and her babies. But all seems to be well today she’s doing fantastically I’m so proud of her.

Thank you for everyone’s comments though very much appreciated

I'm sorry folks, but vets are not knowledgeable about the need for calcium after whelping.  There have been no studies carried out on this because there is no drug to be marketed behind the research - no one is going to make a profit selling calcium.  There are only many, many breeders - mostly based in the US, since the UK is somewhat behind on this - who find time after time, that calcium fixes problems their bitches are having. 

Contrary to what that link says, it is not possible to give too much calcium after whelping if you follow the amount I've given above for the weight of the dog.  You can even go above that quite excessively if necessary and temporarily.  Calcium should not be given during pregnancy - that can cause eclampsia - but should definitely be given during nursing.

As said before, vets do not know about reproductive issues and there is no formal research on this, so therefore they are not going to be recommending it or know anything about it.  Vets will give advice either based on their own experience - and almost none have any repro experience - or based on research - and there is no research on this, as already explained. 

Needing calcium is not 'rare' - in my experience almost every bitch needs it, it is just down to the owner to recognise that and respond.  Before I learnt about using calcium, I thought it was normal for a bitch to be digging at her bedding after birth and to be somewhat stressed and panting.  Since using calcium, that just hasn't happened.  Same bitch. 

Lastly, even a blood test for calcium levels at the vet's is not definitive except in clear cases of eclampsia which are a medical emergency.  The reason it doesn't show up in tests before this, is that the dog withdraws calcium from her own supplies for lactation - so whilst the calcium levels in the blood itself can be normal (having been withdrawn into the blood) the levels in the bone and in the bitch's own supplies can be seriously depleted. 

If anyone would like to learn more, they can join Avidog as an Associate Breeder, where they will find an entire chapter on calcium supplementation and a calcium calculator, plus hundreds of breeders routinely supplementing with calcium.  You can also join Myra's Repro Group on Facebook or Canine Fertility, Reproduction and Neonatal Issues FB group.

Thank you will join the group on Facebook and have a read. I’m. Very interested in learning more for future reference.

She’s definitely settled down totally now though but thank you for all the information will certainly look into it further :)

10 litters on, 5 overseas and 5 back in this country, same breed - NO NEED FOR CALCIUM.   Again what some bitches might need, doesn't mean others do too.   Provided mum is on a good quality diet, from mating through to weaning.   I prefer to operate on more is not necessarily better.

MamaBas, that's great that you've found it to be that way - it's not how I've found it to be, and it's not how many many other breeders have found things in their experience - many have found calcium to be essential and transformative when it comes to a bitch's behaviour.  Furthermore, there is nothing to be lost by trying it so frankly I don't see the problem...

>The reason it doesn't show up in tests before this, is that the dog withdraws calcium from her own supplies for lactation - so whilst the calcium levels in the blood itself can be normal (having been withdrawn into the blood) the levels in the bone and in the bitch's own supplies can be seriously depleted. 

Usefulinformation about eclampsia. The patho-physiology section is particularly informative.

> The patho-physiology section is particularly informative.

Also the paragraph titled Prevention.

That is talking about diet in general, not diet specifically after whelping. 

Yes, if you generally feed a high calcium diet during pregnancy, you will create problems.  As where the paper says 'feeding high calcium diet to dairy cows in the PREPARTUM period'.  Not post-partum.  There is no research into this, as I said.

The ideal calcium to phosphorus is 1.1: 1 up to 1.2:1 during pregnancy - you do not want to go any higher during pregnancy.