Hi all

Some of you may rember a post i did around three weeks ago about my partners friend and his wife. Well i wanted to update you to let you know that they have both been doing a lot of talking and being honest with themselves and he has realised his wife is right that a golden would be best with them being first time owners it was him who wanted the white swiss shepherd and him who picked the airedale terrier while ignorning her. She has always said she only wants a Golden not only as she loves them but also because she feels they need a dog suited to first timers. Anyway he has finally listerned to her and has done his research and seen goldens are reccomened to first time owners and tend to be at the top in articals. But also on the list is the labrador and he quite likes the lab she does too but know there stuck between both breeds. They have met a few breeders and owners of the golden in there area and one of the owners also owned a lab.

I am hoping if i tell you what they have been told you might be able to help.

So according to both breeders and owners the Golden is both easier and slightly more calmer compared to labs. They are easier to train and not as boisterous. Even though both can be full on a pups ( although in my experience pups are full on of any breed) labs are the harder puppy and have s reputation for being the devil as pups and goldens can be the easier pup.  I cant say if thats true as i have never owned a golden but my lab was way harder than my GSD as a puppy.

Goldens are also more quiter than labs but labs are not that vocal either but comparing the two goldens tend to be quiter.

Is this all true Goldens are the better first dog, are quiter, easier to live with, more calmer , easier to train?

No, it is not at all true.

There is huge variation within both breeds.  You haven't mentioned if you are talking about working or show versions of either breed, for starters - there are considerable differences between the two, although I wouldn't say that show bred dogs are lower energy, just that the energy tends to get directed at people and other dogs in exuberance for show breeds.

I've had some golden retrievers in class that have been really handfuls, extremely high energy and hard to manage.  And there are labs which are quite happy just to lie on the floor and chill when they are not working.  And then there are the opposite.  And then there is everything in between.

Basically, it is far more down to lines and to parentage and the specific dogs behind a breeding than it is anything to do with the breeds themselves and you need to spend time getting to know the parents if you want to find a dog which suits.

Hi.

The people they spoke too were show lines mainly but the person who owns both had duel purpose. I think they were all just generalising between the two breeds rather than lines.

Between the two is there one you would reccomened over the other for a first time owner?

I know they would not own a working line so they would own either show or duel purpose line.

Both breeds need a lot of input as puppies to produce a balanced adult(TBH this applies to all breeds).

Both are touted as ideal family pets & first dogs, I don't think the "ideal"family pet/first dog exists.

Research into both breeds is essential & especially the health side, they are both prone to serious health issues & proper health testing is essential.

There aren't many true dual purpose kennels that have puppies readily available even for planned litters.

Both breeds showlines tend to be bigger & heavier than their working counterparts.

Personally I wouldn't have either because I prefer other gundog breeds(HPR)

Meeting as many as possible is essential as then they can seen what is available & what attracts them.

Both these breeds are bred in really high numbers & an awful lot bred for money, so extreme care is needed when even considering visiting litters.

Good luck to them in finding a decent breeder & their new dog

Thaks Tommee , i agree with you, dont know what they will say but i agree with you but thats because i have owned both a gundog ( labrador) and a pastoral ( German Shepherd Dog) and i was shocked at how harder work especially as a pup Kiara my lab was to my German shepherd he was way easier to train and raise.

I found it interesting you said HPR gundogs are your preference. My neighbour is a HPR person too he owns a Visla and an Italian Spinone ( also known as the Spinone Italiano) i saw him this morning on our walk and was talking to him about this and he said the Italian Spinone would be a better fit than a lab or Golden in his opinion and if they have the energy levels for one even a visla as he has found both easier than the labs he used to own. ( that is why i asked him as i know he used to own labs)

I haven't owned either breed, but the ones I see out would seem to suggest Goldies tend to be calmer than Labs. But I'm sure there are plenty of calm Labs out there too. I imagine Goldies will need more work grooming. But if she has her heart set on a Goldie I would probably stick with that. I've heard that a lot of the poorly bred ones have temperament issues though so beware of that, make sure they find a reputable breeder.

I haven't owned either but we have always  had goldens in our.close family
i have also met labs in training classes and of course out and about.personnally I prefer goldens I can't really out my finger on why unfortunately,most seem easier to train maybe but that maybe juts what I've seen and not a breed thing .  I am talking about more showlines in both not working lines. The working ones of both breeds I find are to ott for my situation as a pet home and maybe for many pet homes .
As for barking the families goldens are usually quiet unless they need to tell.you someone is at the door !
Are the two breeds that different ? Is it more to do with the individual dog and how it's trained ?  I prefer the look of a golden especially the dark coloured ones.oftrn more difficult to find if u don't want working lines. Goldens coats arnt hard to keep well but if fur is an issue I've always found that lab type coats really stick to carpets and clothes whereas the softer fur is less of a problem. Not the right thing to decide on but may be relevant to some

I’ve had goldens for over 30 years and love them to bits so hopelessly biased.

They can be a handful as puppies, but are quick to learn and my current one is a joy to own. Moulting is usually the main issue with goldens, but labs moult heavily too, it’s just less noticeable. I’ve found the golden hair floats about in hairballs like tumbleweed whereas Lab hair tends to weave itself into carpets. Having hair free clothes is a thing of the past and something you just accept and carry on regardless. I would say that a good brush through at least once a week for a golden except when moulting and then it’s daily

Mine is now nearly six and is quiet and placid round the house and thoroughly enjoys her walks and would happily go all day if the opportunity arose but just as happy if that doesnt happen so long as we are there. She’s extremely friendly and welcomes people to the house (hopeless watchdog) and rarely barks unless she spots a squirrel in the garden. Goldens are very people orientated and like to have their humans with them as much as possible.

Having said that they all vary and I have had dogs that were as daft as a brush and one that wasn’t friendly at all.

I spent a long time looking for her and finding the right breeder who was breeding for temperament as well as health. Her background is dual purpose, her breeder worked his dog as well as showed them and they did reasonably well.
I can’t accentuate enough to make sure that your friends really check out the temperament of the dogs that thier chosen breeder owns especially the dam of the puppies as it is inherited. Testing for hips, eyes and elbows are essential, anything else is a bonus especially heart issues.

I have come across more OTT GOLDENS than Labs, which I put down to training or lack of, in fact one of my sheepdogs was badly bitten by a couple of Goldens who were off lead on the hills whilst I was bringing down a flock.

Both these breeds are very strong from an early age & as I always reiterate cobstantly, training is the key it's not exactly rocket science

I must say I do like the Wirehaired Vizslas, they do seem to have more control over their working drive & are very tractable

>Between the two is there one you would reccomened over the other for a first time owner?

Not really, it has to be about a fit between the home and the dog.  I've had show-bred labradors in class that are throwing themselves around, leaping about, trying to get to the other dogs and barking in frustration if they can't reach them.  Physically, they can be very full-on.  This type of dog, matched with a shy or retiring owner, just doesn't do well. 

I've also had show-bred labs happy to lie at their owner's feet with no training required. 

It's all about finding the individual dog, forget about the breed - that's just a starting point.

I do find that labs are more food motivated than goldens and this tends to mean they are easier to control and train in general (with the above exceptions).

As Golden retrievers have the highest entries at championship shows I would suggest they go to one of the big shows coming up (WELKKS is soon https://www.threecounties.co.uk/whats-on/welks-championships/ )and see the dogs and exhibitors there. 

Buy a catalogue and not the breeders and the sires and dams of dogs they are drawn to.

Very soon you are likely to find particular lines and families appeal.  Then they should ask to go on the waiting list for their next litter.

A good breeder will match the most suitable puppy to potential owners from the pups in the litter.

Choosing the breeder is the important part, one who Hip and elbow scores, eye tests and DNA tests for known inherited problems in the breed.

They should be prepared to wait and/or travel for the right puppy/breeder.

> I must say I do like the Wirehaired Vizslas

I have noticed they seem to have a steadier character, a lot of the smooths I have met seem to have quite weak nerves.

Ok so i have come up with a plan for them from what everyone has said and want to know if you agree before i tell them.

After reading all the replies and since breed is not as important as the individual dog like onetwothreefour said , i was thinking that they should go back to the begining and wright down all the traits and characteristics they want in a dog , put how much Exersice, what size, grooming, health, easy or not to train ect down on paper and then wright a list of breeds who suit that lust and then meet them in the flesh. And after they have picked a breed spend a lot of time on looking at breeders and finding a good one and finding the right dog of there choosen breed for them.

What do you think?

I was suprised that the breed is not as important as i thought that was very important or at least thats what your told. Thats why i was suprised when onetowthreefour said

"It's all about finding the individual dog, forget about the breed - that's just a starting point."

A client of mine were looking for their 1st dog, someone who breeds Vizzies said the breed is NOT really suitable for a 1st time owner, they got a working line Lab instead. They have however watched with interest how Vizzies are and how they work and they have said they are very glad they didn't get one and heeded the advice of the breeder and that the Lab was much more suitable for them

> I was surprised that the breed is not as important as i thought that was very important or at least thats what your told. Thats why i was suprised when onetowthreefour said

Oh the breed is important, but especially with breeds where a lot of dogs are bred the mental characteristics may vary a lot more than say in my breed where numbers are low, (so dogs have more relatives in common, and breeders are doing more selection of typical/similar traits) so traits to a large extent much more predictable.

For example my breeds standard says:

Characteristics
A hardy hunting Spitz with a bold energetic disposition.

Temperament
Friendly, intelligent and independent without any sign of nervousness.

Within those descriptors I would expect an acceptable range that fits.  I would not expect, from a well bred litter a potentially nervous or aggressive dog, (though upbringing can change things) as that would be most untypical.

Of course how you mould the inherent traits through training to emphasise or discourage them is down to the owner.

Just wanted to update before anyone else replies. My partner just said he spoke with his friend who told him they have picked the golden retriever after meeting more they both are smittern and know it suits both of them after finding more out about the breed.

I also have had a vist from my mother in law who is also stuck and has asked if i will ask on here for advice. Im so sorry i keep posting on behalf of people.

I’ve always thought that the average Lab and the average Golden are pretty similar. I’d agree that Goldens tend to be a little bit calmer, but there isn’t that much between them.

But within each breed there’s definitely a lot of variation.

My Lab was an energetic type, very responsive to training, loved everyone, and didn’t really slow down until middle age when arthritis and hip problems became apparent. My friend had a calm one, happy to potter around saying hi to everyone while my Summer was playing high-speed chase with every playful dog, and he was only a year older.

Another friend had a Golden that was more hyper than Summer. Neighbour had one that was very calm except for barking at every noise. He had a rough start to life and although he didn’t care for children he would sensibly take himself away from them when the noise and running got too much.

All very different dogs.

My first was a Lab. Honestly I preferred that she was quite high-energy, because it can be hard to motivate the super-placid ones. I love the enthusiasm!

Another question , does it matter what gender they choose? They have been told being first timers a girl will be easier as girls are smaller, dont get picked on by males and mature quicker and therefore are easier for first timers?

My first was a boy so i told them it doesn't matter

Taking the above into account, no it doesn't matter as Golden males especially do not seem to be too male dominant.

On the other hand I would never choose to own male dogs, am totally sexist where canines are concerned.

Everyone will have their own opinions due to what experiences they have had. I've owned 10 Goldens over a period of 36 years. I had two from pure showlines (palest cream) and the others were all dual purpose (and much darker). From those ten, if I judged by just them (which I wouldn't as it's not a large enough base), I could conclude that the bitches are horrible as they fought badly with other bitches not of their own breed. I forget how many times we ended up at the vet with a supposedly tough Malinois needing stitches, and the vet not believing us when we said that yes, it WAS a Golden bitch who did the damage.

But then I also had one male Golden who had to be kept apart from a male neutered Cavalier for 12 years as the Golden (Dandy) was intent on killing him. But I much preferred the males for temperament and now when I have Malinois I am often heard saying that "Anyone can train a Golden whilst watching TV with one hand tied behind their back". I had 3 horrible bitches (Jessie, Elsa, Kiara) all starting serious fights with other bitches and one (Jessie) even attacked an 8 week old male puppy (I didn't have those 3 bitches at the same time) and they had little affection for people. I had one very laid back bitch (Emma, TOO laid back), and one who was absolutely wonderful in every way (Jenna, a rescue). I had one amazing dog (Jesper), two that were brilliant in every way except that they did not get on with other males (Leo and Dandy), and one who was great until he developed epilepsy and he then became rather confused and forgot a lot of his training, but he never really did anything wrong and he was brilliant with children and puppies. (Simba). My first was a rescue male and he had some minor issues when I got him, he was my first ever dog, but he turned into an allround good dog as well despite all the novice mistakes I made. (Master.)

Only had one Labrador, she was black and very laid back, rescue picked up as a stray but showlines by the looks of her. The pale cream Goldens were much more laid back than the dual purpose bred ones. ALL 10 that I've had have been fantastic with children.

Lost my last Golden last year, aged 15. He was the only male Golden I'd ever had neutered, and his coat was an absolute nightmare after that. It grew so long and so thick and matted very easily, and just coming inside after a quick toilet break on a rainy day meant one wag of the tail and there'd be mud high up on the walls.

As has been said, it's not just a question of comparing the breeds, but their lines. And the easiest way to do that is meet breeders and their dogs. I've known Goldens who wouldn't retrieve, others who had to have something in their mouths at all times. There was a local line of yellow Labradors from a good show breeder in my town a few years ago, and the yellows were all total idiots - not a brain cell between them and acting like big clumsy clowns -and that was the breeder's own words! Recently I've met a yellow Labrador bitch who the first time I met her wouldn't even get out of her bed, she wasn't bothered about making new friends. Then she realised I tend to have treats in my pockets and although she's never been given one by me, now she turns up to say hello all the time. And she's from working lines. She's lovely, but personally I'd find her boring to live with, but I like full on dogs hence now having Malinois and Papillons (and a Poodle).

Broadly speaking I'd say both breeds are generally speaking ideal for novices and families - but finding a responsible breeder is a must. And after having read the book "Marley and me" I've come to the conclusion that some people would only cope with a stuffed toy as the owners effectively created all his problems!

I've come to the conclusion that some people would only cope with a stuffed toy as the owners effectively created all his problems!

'Nice dog - shame about the owner'

I hate that film. I think the word I’m after regarding the owners is inept. It makes me so mad and I feel hugely sorry for the poor dog.

I enjoyed the book but I have to admit to wanting to shout at the owners about a million times during reading it!

Me too. I could barely read it at times as it made me so cross

I never finished the film as i annoyed my partner as i kept shouting out what mistakes they kept making so he turned it off