Hi all, we're trying to breed our bitch.  We've found a gorgeous stud dog with temperament to die for, and they have both been health tested clear and are working gundogs with great lines. 

She's been mated before, but he hasn't, and frankly he doesn't seem to have a clue what he's doing!  We tried on Friday which was day 10 for her, but I think too early.  Tried again yesterday but at our house which didn't work as he was just too distracted (we thought that would be the case).  Today we took her to his house and they spent 4 hours in the garden together but still no joy.  She's definitely ready, she's standing, flagging, flirting, twitching, and he has tried numerous times but to no avail.

He has (look away now those of a nervous disposition!) been humping lots and on three occasions had a fully extended penis but has been thrusting it down the side of her (at one point even looked as though he'd ejaculated outside of her), and can't seem to get it in. 

We've tried holding her steady and guiding his rear end, but as soon as we get near them they separate and just want our attention instead.

Has anybody got any ideas?  I'm not really sure what to do next, we're going to try again tomorrow but I'm conscious that time is slipping away and if it doesn't work then I think we may need to see if we can quickly find another stud dog for Wednesday.

Any words of wisdom very gratefully received.

Yes.  So, you need to have one person already sitting on the floor, holding the bitch by the collar with her rear pointing towards the doorway through which the stud will come.  That person can be at the side of the bitch rather than the head, so they are ready to deal with the business end as well - and looking away from the stud at first.  If you want 2 people, you need them both with the bitch already when he comes in, not moving to them...

When he starts to mount, you can move the vulva towards the penis to help line things up.  Don't try to touch him - touch her vulval lips from under her belly, to line him up with her. 

You need to have the person with the bitch already so that you're not moving onto them when he mounts, that will put him off.  Don't look at him directly or engage him. 

Finally, don't leave them together for 4 hours - things won't improve.  Instead, separate them and give them some time apart before the next try.  They should be together no more than 20-30mins.  That way there will be fresh interest when they meet again rather than just boredom and habituation.

How old is he?

> When he starts to mount, you can move the vulva towards the penis to help line things up.  Don't try to touch him - touch her vulval lips from under her belly, to line him up with her.

This method worked for me with a headstrong bitch that preferred to act out the male part, and would insist on thrusting/air humping when the dog mounted.

Brilliant, thanks so much for those tips both of you, we’ll try that tomorrow. I think I have been hoping nature would just take its course and it would all happen without us getting involved (last time my bitch was mated it was happening before we even realised!), but obviously not.

The stud dog is 2.

Thanks again, very much appreciated.

Just thought I'd let you both know that we had a successful mating this morning with a 20 minute tie, hurrah!  I tried as suggested above but no joy, the dog just wasn't terribly interested.  After 45 mins I thought I'd just try in the garden for a bit before I gave up as yesterday he was much more excited when running around outside.  So I did that, and they were mating within minutes.  Luckily near me so I grabbed my bitch and held her, and it worked perfectly.

Fingers crossed for puppies in 9 weeks........

Thanks again, you gave me the confidence to try again with our choice of stud dog rather than giving up.

Excellent, try to get another mating 48 hrs later.  If you can attempt another one 48hrs after that, go for it as well.  Basically every other day until she goes over. 

It will give the boy more experience too.

Thank you, we were going to try again but not sure if Thursday would be too late.  Today was day 13 for her, so would you recommend we try tomorrow instead, or leave it until Thursday which would be day 15?  I'm just worried that by Thursday the moment will have passed her by!

I'd be more inclined, if necessary (!) to go for another tomorrow.   The last thing an inexperienced stud dog needs is for the bitch to have gone over, and see him off!!

> we were going to try again but not sure if Thursday would be too late.

I really don't understand why people assume that a bitch can't be fertile on day 15.  I've had bitches receptive much later than that, and successfully conceive.  There isn't a standard day for a bitch to be ready.

> I really don't understand why people assume that a bitch can't be fertile on day 15.  I've had bitches receptive much later than that, and successfully conceive.  There isn't a standard day for a bitch to be ready.

Quite true and I never even try to mate mine now before day 14 as experience with my girls has shown me that they tend not to be ready until at least then and some much later.

If you have only just got a mating now, I would not think she would have gone over by Thursday, and that would be the best time to try again.

Often if the bitch isn't truly ready, then a dog will mount but not be truly serious.  a young dog like this will be mounting because the bitch is allowing it, but her scent may not be driving him to maximum effort until she is spot on.

I often find, especially proven bitches, that they will flag and stand about two days before a really experienced stud will bother with them beyond a bit of flirting.

A lot of inexperienced boys need a bit of excitement, and that is more likely in the garden with minimal interference, but as someone sais earlier, if it hasn't happened in half an hour then separate and try again later.

When I have had males to stay with girls to be mated I usually get a mating in the morning after everyone has been out for the first wee of the day and then I let the pair out for a bit of flirting, with me watching unobtrusively.

Also always approach slowly and quietly once the boy has stopped ladder climbing, and is preparing to turn, so that no-one is panicked, or you don't disturb him at wrong moment.

Oh yes of course they can still be ready on day 15.  Some will mate day 18, day 20 even...

However I do think that if your bitch was showing she was ready a few days ago but the stud couldn't mate her (although she wanted to be bred then) you won't be one of these going-really-late people.  So you could try again tomorrow or Thursday.  Semen lives 3-5 days at least, so if you just had a good mating you shouldn't need one 24 hours later but can do 48 hours later... that will cover you later in the cycle...

Many years ago I took a maiden bitch to an experienced stud dog. She had to wear a veil over her head throughout the mating.

Thanks all.  I know that she could still be receptive tomorrow, but given she started flagging seriously and I think had her LH surge on Sunday (day 9), I didn't want to risk leaving it that late.  She lives with our male dog so that's quite handy for assessing the right time!

Anyway, took her back today and had a second mating.  She definitely wasn't flirting or standing as much as yesterday, so I think today probably would have been the last day and I'm pleased we managed a second go.

Time will tell, fingers crossed...........

Thanks again all.