So me my partner and his friend and wife went to crufts today. A lot on here suggested his friend and his wife go to crufts to find there breed anyway it was a good suggestion as they have , they looked at the leonberger but they both thought it was too big. For awhile me and my partner did not think they would find one they both were happy with and then they spotted a white swiss shepherd ( i thought it was a white german shepherd but the owner corrected me) they both really liked the dog and spoke for ages to the owners and i think they said they spoke with the breed club and have decided on the white swiss shepherd. This has intrigued me as i cant find much info on the breed , the owner told them they a similar to GSD but have differances as well and thats why there recognised as a seperate breed. Are they different to german shepherds or are tjey just white german shepherds but with a different name? And if they are different what are the differences?

They are a different breed although their origins are the same and are now recognised as such by the KC
I spoke at length with a breeder at discover dogs last year and very much liked.them but then I have been a fan of gsd forever and have also owned them
Health wise it doesn't seem there are many differences but hopefully less exaggerated stance etc than gsd
I would be asking about all the health tests that gsd should have although I don't know how.many cross over to was .DM and haemophilia for.example  I gather they are usually less driven than working lines gsd and claims are more gentle and calmer . Difficult to prove that one I would.think.
Certainly one I would.consider more.closely if I were to decide to have another gsd
How easy it is to find a pup given there are few breeders in the UK  I don't know but I am sure your friends have asked that .

Thanks furriefriends , i know my partners friend said they were told that they are calmer than most GSD's , that they are more playful than most GSD's , are more stranger friendly compared to a GSD, not the best guard dog more watchdog. Health wise they were told there healthier than GSD's and live longer , have a more straight back and that they move different to GSD's, they are more sensitive, they are velcro dogs and follow you everywere, easy to train.

In terms of breeders they were told there are a very , very small number of good breeders here in the UK and you have to really want a White swiss mountain dog and be certain they are for you as there a 4 year wait for a pup on average.

They defiently are 100% certain this is the breed for them. I just found it interesting sonxe i love GSD like you furriefriends.

About 3 breeders from what I can see .sounds like same as I was told . I guess with a breed new to the UK unless u can get information from the Europe where the breed has been recognised for longer it's difficult to know much more
Hopefully their health status is good but I would still check out about the other things that are now able to be tested in gsd. Ime gsd can be pretty velcro or at least mine were.slightly different to my fcr who needs to be at my feet.with the gsd  as long as they can see u it's fine.group outings are fine as long as one tof.herd doesn't go missing then a gsd has problems .

Found this link, i know its an American site but it gives a bit of info on the breed and when it explains the differences it says the same as the owner they spoke to that the most they'll do is bark to alert of someone outside and thats as far as there protective nature goes. Interesting read.

https://animalso.com/breeds/white-swiss-shepherd/

From the link above and from what they were told today it seems White Swiss Shepherds are more like flat coats always at your feet and more clingy than GSD.

Haha sounds like I do need one then fcr/gsd
Have u looked at the breed club as well as wiki ?
If.u Google white Swiss shepherd + FCI there are quite a few other links with breed clubs around the world and the fci breed standard.not sure if the KC has sorted that out yet

Yes exactly i adore my GSD but partner is not as fond on the breed but reading on them even he is interested in the White Swiss Shepherd due to them being more playful , clingy ( he loves that Kiara our lab wants nothing but cuddles were diesel our GSD is not fussed about cuddles ) so the fact than WSS love affection and follow you Everywere and that there not as outgoing or as serious as GSD's and that there more friendly with strangers makes him prefer them to GSD's and the fact they are still similar to and look like GSD's pleases me.

A Dutch veterinary friend of mine used to have a Swiss. Basically they came from GSD origins, they have all the same known health issues of the GSD & can be far more"sensitive" than a German Working line GSD, with less strength of character & nowhere near as friendly.  He told me he wouldn't have another one & now has an all black Working line German GSD. His Swiss was from a "working"line, but hadn't enough work drive sadly. He lost him early with rapid developing DM.

DM that's isn't mentioned in the breed club health unless I missed it and I was wondering given their origins as well as haemophilia

I am still wondering if a lot of the description is subjective as most of those things would have fitted for my gsds..both happy with cuddles and affection ,playful especially when younger not sure what the serious bit is tbh .they didn't look for.contact with strangers but happy to have them around
It's finding a well bred gsd that is tricky often although they are there

I remember my friend thinking the same, until his bitch started "knuckling"over her back feet. DM isn't confined to GSDs as many people believe, my Dutch friend is a veterinary neurologist & has seen DM in far more breeds than you would think. It is often misdiagnosed because so many vets consider it to be a GSD condition.

As for hemophilia that too exists in many more breeds than the GSD, it could be as rare in Swiss as it is in German Bloodline GSDs now after decades of testing males & removing the failures from the gene pool.

In theory DM should be able to be bred out now we have testing not sure if it will be but any responsible breeder will be testing I should hope
And yes to other breeds

The Swiss is not yet KC recognised BTW

I found it has been In. 2017 ? Am I mistaken ?https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-dog/white-swiss-shepherd-dog/

It has been recognized the owner said so today and she said this year will be the first time they are allowed to show them so there will be a White Swiss Shepherd in the pastrol group tomorrow.

I know 2 swiss shepherds, both have fantastic temperaments. Gentle and sociable.

They have no breed classes at Crufts so will be in the pastoral group judging only if they are chosen as Best Import Register(Pastoral). So how do you know one of the Swiss will be in the Pastoral Group judging are there only Swiss in the IR classes all 58 dogs are ALL Swiss then ?????

They only have an interim breed standard & as such are still being assessed as to whether or not they will be eventually fully recognized & have classes at Crufts.

Hope your friends have very deep pockets if they choose a Swiss, probably 4 figures price tag

They need to up date their Pastoral breed pages which is where I checked

Crufts schedule, page 25.
There are six breeds which are entitled to enter the AV Pastoral. Imported Breed Register Classes, if qualified by specific wins at particular shows. There is no way of knowing which of these breeds will be declared Best of AVIBR (Pastoral), but the winner will be entitled to join the Pastoral group judging. The entry is 36 giving 53, so although this may be a White Swiss Shepherd Dog, it could also be a Hungarian Pumi, Hungarian Kuvasz, Bergamasco, Picardy sheepdog, or a Swedish Lapphund.

I've just discovered that there is a short audio podcast put up by Crufts on the White Swiss Shepherd and tells you a bit about their history and the showing of them tomorrow. They interviewed a lady called Sue Renno

The owner told them the WSS will be in the pastrol group. Maybe shes being over confidant that the swiss will win.

Or maybe she didn't mention it was the import pastoral group when talking .either way it will be nice to see them

I don't think the Import Register have their own group, surely it will be like the best of breed judging & the winner of each class are judged & the best selected from them to go into the group. The judge of the IR is an FCI judge so no doubt will have a better knowledge of the breeds that most KC only judges.

A bit like introducing any new breed of animal, their supporters aren't always forthcoming about the negatives in order to persuade others to buy their animals.

BTW this isn't the first time a Swiss has competed at Crufts. There was a Swiss in the Dutch World Cup obedience team, described as a Cross because at the time the Swiss weren't KC recognised. Her name was Quiet Kuma the Lovely White Shepherd.

I just think there was some confusion about which group the wss was going to be in .easily done when talking to non show people . Looks like they will be in the ring though at some point
As for negatives that's why I said some of these things are subjective .after all things one may accept in a breed others consider unacceptable to live with .

The IR isnt a "group"it's normal breed classes for dogs on the IR, just like GSDs, BCs etc & is judge the same way class by class & then the best of the class winners. The winner is the Best IR not Best of IR group

You will only see one if it is Best IR

Well one of the Swiss has won a class- 1st out of 1 entry !

Well the White Swiss won the IR pastoral classes, and went in the Pastoral group.

Really wish they would put the breeds in the results of AV classes.

Yes he did a multiple champion & oddly enough DNA tested for DM a condition the breed doesn't have allegedly. Hm why test for a genetic condition the breed doesn't have very very odd ??

Surely all dogs can suffer from DM, you only have to look at Laboklin, im sure they say its for all breeds. GSD's maybe more prone but it can happen in any breed

Yes, recognised the Pumi and Picard affixes, guessed the WSS, but would have liked them all to be given.

There is NO mention of DM on any of the breed sites for this breed & yet I know that they do have it because of my friend's personal experience & those of owners of related & unrelated dogs to his. Breeder(not Swiss or Dutch) denied any knowledge of others with DM in the breed. I cannot understand testing for something that allegedly doesn't occur in the breed.

Interestingly only been an accepted breed with FCI since 2011, in Switzerland only since 1991 yet the breed is supposed to swiss in origin & the first dog registered in Switzerland was from the US ?? Possibly another US breed disguised as from a different country( English Shepherd, Australian Shepherd spring to minD.

Off topic

There are only 4 breeds of Swiss sheep: Bündner Oberländerschaf, Red Engadine, Roux du Valais & Valais Blacknose. Flock numbers are very small & goats I believe outnumber sheep. Never heard of any Swiss shepherd(human) using this breed as a work dog, but will make enquiries as I have been contacted for a couple of unrelated Herdwick tups for improving the viability of these breeds which need the gene pool improving by some of breed wardens. Being a fairly primitive & extremely hardy breed, the Herdwicks are ideal for bringing new blood into rare sheep breeds.

White swiss mountain dog


Is this another breed ??

Seems to be connected to Bernese Mountain Dog.

In one way it seems crazy to split a breed just because of coat colour or coat, especially as white and longcoated GSD are popular pets. There are probably more white GSD around than Swiss Shepherds.

On the other hand it looked better than the GSD best of breed, at least on TV

> Surely all dogs can suffer from DM

Not quite all Silken Windhounds are the only breed that can guarantee the whole breed are clear of DM, As all silkens have dna on file it's relatively easy (though expensive) to check the entire breed, or the earliest breeding stock, when a new dna test becomes available. We were delighted that no breeding silken carries (or carried) the DM gene. Many silkens have since had this double checked when doing the comprehensive embark testing (genetic testing for about 170 diseases) and indeed no DM in the breed

Seems to be connected to Bernese Mountain Dog.
The Great Swiss Mountain Dog?

> Yes he did a multiple champion & oddly enough DNA tested for DM a condition the breed doesn't have allegedly. Hm why test for a genetic condition the breed doesn't have very very odd ??

If he has used Genescoper's MyDogDNA panel then they test for a multitude of diseases whether the breed has them or not.  they do list the ones known in the breed first. DM is the one listed for the breed.

https://www.mydogdna.com/crm/index.html#en/breeds/519248a83cd390a052000031/white_swissshepherddog/disorders

List of Public results for the breed:  https://www.mydogdna.com/crm/index.html#en/publicAnimals

First dog in that list is a Carrier: https://www.mydogdna.com/crm/index.html#en/animals/BR02870/pass/summary

No other DNA tests mentioned don't forget this dog is Hungarian not living in UK. The photograph of him in motion looks like he us falling on forehand or roaching his back nut that could be because he's got a very fine choker up under his ears

The GSD is NOT spilt by colour, the white Swiss comes from the US. White is a disqualifying fault in Germany, originally because German sheep breeds do not respond to being shepherded by white dogs. Don't forget GSD shepherd sheep, they don't work like collies, having different functions

White Swiss Mountain Dogs are in no way related to Bernese.

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/dog-breeds/white-swiss-shepherd/

Information here.

What is a White Swiss Mountain Dog ? There are Bernese Mountain Dog which are Swiss, but cannot find any reference to this"breed".

Another possible American invention like the WSS ?

The Swiss farmer who is now buying a couple of my young proven Herdwick Tups, tells me in the 40 odd years he's been breeding sheep in Switzerland, he's never seen or heard of anyone using the WSS to work with/around their stock, in fact he'd never heard of this"breed" at all. Hmm as he's one of the most senior shepherds in Switzerland makes me wonder if the origin of this breed like the English Shepherd & Australian Shepherd may lie the otherside of the Atlantic Ocean.


https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/dog-breeds/white-swiss-shepherd/


Oh this is the most reliable source of information your google search found ?

Hmmm lots of things wrong with their information for several breeds I've had a quick look at & they include several "designer" crossbreeds as if they the real breeds. Sorry I research from "factual sources" not a puppy selling site

I know this is wiki which can be dubious but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berger_Blanc_Suisse if u then click on white Swiss it gives some interesting info of origins .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berger_Blanc_Suisse I know this is wiki which can be a bit dubious with information at times but if u combine the info in that page and click in white shepherd it gives some idea of origins .not sure as a separate breed it is or  has been used as a working dog.

Slightly different but sounding a bit like the Shiloh shepherd which hasn't been recognised as a breed inspite of the breeder trying to get it recognised some years ago now

A better site than pets4homes!! is here  http://www.whiteswissshepherdclubuk.org/breed-history.html

FCI: White Swiss Shepherd Dog

Champdogs: White Swiss Shepherd Dog

This"breed"has as far as I can research-offline-has never been used for farm work in Switzerland, everything goes back to the USA just like the English & Australian Shepherds do. The shepherds/farmers in Switzerland do not work their sheep with this"breed" & they don't work them the same way the German/Dutch/Belgian shepherd are used.

You have really to look at the husbandry methods of each country & the type of land the stock is kept on.

The true"shepherding"breeds do not act as flock guards they work alongside & in place of the shepherd. One of their main duties is to keep the stock in a set area of land, they patrol the limits of the area & keep the stock inside the perimeter in fields with physical boundaries.

Swiss stock is not kept like this, they have similar hill pasture to hills farms in the UK which dont have 100% physical boundaries & it would not be possible for the dogs to "shepherd" the stock. The(human)shepherds go to the pasture & stay with the stock(same as the (human) goatherds. Only milking herds are kept close to the farm for obvious reasons.

For a breed to bear a country's name, yet not to have a presence in that country until dogs are imported from a third country always stikes me as very odd & casts doubt as to the true orgin of the breed.

There has already been warnings that because of the public desire for this breed & the small number of registered dogs available(around 100 I believe)to breed from, unscrupulous breder could breed & sell unregistered"white"GSDs as WSS to supply the demand & how can the public know. There is no 100 % DNA test for breed- only parentage.