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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Coat Colours - ESS
- By Jessica Matilda [gb] Date 16.12.18 09:44 UTC Edited 20.12.18 13:21 UTC
My liver/seal and white bitch was bred her with another Liver and white but both their parents were black and white. We are hoping for a variety of colours, I'm especially intrigued by the tri-coloured though I doubt that will come up in the litter.

I'd be very grateful if anyone could could tell me if any of:
•black and white
•red and white
•lemon and white
•tri-coloured
Could come up in the litter?
- By Lexy [gb] Date 16.12.18 09:58 UTC Upvotes 1
The UK breed standard states liver & white or black & white or either with tan markings..no mention of any other clours you have listed
- By Jessica Matilda [gb] Date 16.12.18 10:17 UTC
I am aware that the only started colours are black/liver and white, and tan patches is what I meant when I said tri-coloured. Lemon is common in cockers and red common in Welsh springers, though I have seen both colours in Springers and was just wondering.

What in trying to say is: If both parents are black and white, are two liver and white springers able to produce a variety of colours (mix of liver/black and white) or will they only throw liver?
- By Tommee Date 16.12.18 11:16 UTC Upvotes 1
As far as I am aware breeding 2 LIVER & white springers together will produce only LIVER & white offspring.

Whether they could produce tricolours(tan patches where the LIVER meets the white)Im not sure

They could NOT produce black and white offspring.

Look here
- By Silverleaf79 [gb] Date 16.12.18 13:16 UTC
I don’t know specifically about Springers, but in mammals in general liver/chocolate is always recessive to black so two liver parents can’t produce black offspring.

Red is controlled by a different gene and controls whether the black or liver pigments will be expressed or whether the colour will be red instead.

It’s possible that two liver parents could both be carrying red as it’s a recessive trait but if red’s not common in ESSs then it’s unlikely. You could only get red or tri pups if both parents are carrying genes for red or tri. Any tris would be liver with red/tan patches, and reds would probably have eye and nose colour associated with liver.
- By Tommee Date 16.12.18 13:28 UTC Edited 16.12.18 13:31 UTC
Bearing in mind this article is american. It is highly unlikely that a UK ESS would be red or yellow. The third colour in tris is TAN not red or yellow

In GSDs solid black is recessive to all other colours
- By Silverleaf79 [gb] Date 16.12.18 18:07 UTC
Sure, there are general rules for coat colour, but of course there are always going to be exceptions in some breeds. I didn’t know black was recessive in GSDs, but that does make sense in a strange kind of way!

The “default” or wild colour of mammals is usually agouti, which is where the hair shaft is black with one or several red stripes giving a sort of brown ticked effect (a wild rabbit is a great example). Solid colours are recessive to agouti. So maybe GSDs work in a similar way, with solid black colour recessive to tan+black or sable?

In many animals having solid red and black at the same time is recessive to just solid black.
- By Tommee Date 16.12.18 18:26 UTC
Solid black is recessive to ALL other colours & colour patterns in GSDs which is why "white"GSDs can produce solid blacks. Of course "white" GSDs are rarely actually white but pale cream to biscuit. Sable is not a colour of course, but a colour pattern & some so called black GSDs, are actually black sables, they have sable markings between toes & under base of tail. Easy to see when they are new borns
- By Jessica Matilda [gb] Date 16.12.18 18:58 UTC
Thank you for all the replies. Looking at these comments I guess I'm looking at liver puppies only?
- By Tommee Date 16.12.18 22:16 UTC
If both patents are Liver yes
- By JoStockbridge [gb] Date 16.12.18 23:28 UTC
Likely more liver and white pups.
Dominant black (caused by K locus) is in the breed not sure if recessive black (on the A locus) is too or not. If they are dominant black based both would have to carry a copy of the recessive k gene to express the A locus genes where the tan gene is. If that's the case there is a 25% chance of a pup inheriting two copies and express the A locus. Did the patients have any tri siblings?

All pups will have two copies of the liver gene so no blacks.
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Coat Colours - ESS

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