Hello! I'm hoping to have our first litter (for 20+years) late 2019. We've done all the relevant health tests, found the perfect boy who compliments our girl and her breeder is very excited for us and happy to mentor us and help us anyway she can. Ive also rung our council to check we don't need a license.

My question is although we won't make any/enough profit to pay tax on. How do we declare the sale price of the puppies to Hmrc? We've always both had tax taken out from our salaries by employers. Even though we plan on just having the one litter and not a business, do we have to register as being self employed and complete a self assessment or does the money from the sale of the pups come under capital gains tax and we complete a self assessment?

Thankyou, any advice greatly appreciated

I can just hear the stampede heading for the under the stairs hiding place.

Yes you do need to fill in a self assessment form.

Can will fill in one without being registered as self employed?

Yes look here to check if you need to complete a return or just need to contact HMRC & discuss with them.

Thankyou Tommee, I'm sure I'll end up ringing them. I know I need to complete a self assessment form. What confuses me is do I need to register as self employed to do so? Or does the sale of them come under the capital gains tax? As are they consider an asset or personal possession?

> Even though we plan on just having the one litter and not a business, do we have to register as being self employed and complete a self assessment or does the money from the sale of the pups come under capital gains tax and we complete a self assessment?

I too can imagine the stampede    If you really want to be 'legal' talk to the Income Tax people!   And then try to make the sums fit you 'breaking even'!!  Mind you by the time you have puppies and income, what's in place right now, will probably have all changed.  I'd wait until closer to the time!!!

Tommee advise is good.as people's situation can vary regardless of it looks similar it is best to discuss with HMRC. They really can be helpful :)

Call it a business. Keep all bills and receipts, for vets etc . If you make a profit there is a way of setting it off against another years losses.
If you make a loss the HMRC will set the loss off against your earnings PAYE!
Eventually after losses for some years HMRC will accept it as a hobby.
I kept a small pedigree flock of sheep and did make a profit some years but by the time I gave it up I had losses for years and they set the loss off against my teachers earnings
You will have to start filling in Tax returns. Keep all the files for about 7 years.

You will probably need a council licence however

The first thing you need to be concerned with is do you need a council dog breeding license.
You need to contact your council before you breed.
Councils vary across the UK as to how they implement the new dig breeding laws.
Some even if you sell one puppy you must be licensed,others say 2 litters and some say you cannot have an income trade as over the £1000.
So as I'm a licensed breeder I'd definitely suggest asking your council as you may be prosecuted for breeding under the new law.
Secondly if you make a trading income ( not profit) of £1000 or under you do not need to contact taxman unless you have other income in the tax year.
If you go over the £1000 trading income you must declare it to taxman on tax return whether you make a profit or not.
If you make a profit from selling puppies you must have a license as well unless you sell them within the £1000 trading income or you give them away.
Documented evidence must be kept if you do give them away- names and addresses Tec.

I feel that the whole thing is counterproductive. The good, conscientious breeders are going to think it’s not worth the hassle and the dodgy ones will carry on as they don’t care anyway. I know it’s a massive generalisation, and I’m not trying to insult anyone who is conscientious, I just cannot see how it’s going to work for the benefit of dogs in general.

Do you work and pay tax now, if so you will need a self assessment form, which you can do online.  Best to speak to the HMRC and get it from the horses mouth.

I'd wait and see how much profit you make.  Keep account of all the equipment you buy, stud/vets fees and all expenses incurred which can include breed club subscriptions, advertising, stationary,KC registration, microchipping..everything!

> I'd wait and see how much profit you make.  Keep account of all the equipment you buy, stud/vets fees and all expenses incurred which can include breed club subscriptions, advertising, stationary,KC registration, microchipping..everything!

Me too .... and make sure you are able to include YOUR TIME in your computation re the costs of doing the litter.   Ideally you should be able to make X = 0!!    We rarely made a significant profit with our litters which we only did for our next generation.   So there's be probably 2 puppies there that weren't sold.......... We were happy to break even, with one, or perhaps two, puppies for the next generation.

I still see a stampede (into hiding) re letting HMRC know about your income from doing this!

I left a lot of things out actually..dont forget food (from conception) and bedding, any insurance, supplements, vaccinations, worming mum and pups, fuel costs, including extra electricity for heat lamps..used to cost me £4 a week..over 8 weeks in the winter, it all adds up. 

Yes MamaBas, to break even was the goal and very rarely accomplished. Though pupppies these days costing  £1000 plus I suppose there is more chance of a profit if you have a large and trouble free litter. I made a profit on just two litters over 30 years of having pups once or twice a year.

I beleive the cost of keepign the bitch to breeding age is also factiored in, as well as her upkeep frm first to next litter. Showing costs are ofset as advertising I beleive.

So nice to have you back 'Brainless' . I have seen any posts from you for ages. Hope all is well.

Hi Jan.

Well out of the dog scene since my move, as not found any local dog show foklk that wouldm be happy to team up for travel to shows.  The nearest ringcraft is in a village 8 miles away and not reachable by public transport.

Tragically I lost my youngest bitch to an unspecified neurological issue a week before lockdown.

So just me and Inka, now 12, and Myka 13 1/2. 

I had allowed Peni to go to an older breed enthusiast, before we moved, who had lost their oldie, due to the continuing bickering between her and Inka. So had moved with three.

I am now hoping to buy a puppy from a bitch I had bred, but she is 4 1/2 so if she doesn't produce this time, I may have to wait 18 months for a pup from my last litter to be bred from.

Those who say you should only breed when you want to keep something from a litter should realise that it is so easy to loose gebnerations of breedign lines due to an unexpected death, pyometra, or some other breeding failure in teh ones we manage to keep.  Putting stock out there (in hopes some will be bred on from) to potentially be able to use or rescue your lines is also important.

I had hoped to make friends in my new home especially dog owning/show ones, but covid has pretty much put paid to that.  It has been a year sicne we moved on 4th August.

many appologies for the typos and dyslexic tying,

No need to apologise. My typos are legend. I wrote to my friends during lockdown that I was keeping busy 'dogging' in the garden. I loathe my iphone as it comes up with bizarre predictive text which I often only notice days later.

My biggest issue is that the wrong letters hit first (lots of back to front ones and being adn, etc )when two handed typing and hitting two letters on the phone.

Dear Barbara,

I'm so sorry to hear you lost your youngest bitch in such a way - to not know the cause even is just awful and your point about ensuring line continuity is such an important one.  One of the age old questions it seems - how to get people to sterilise when they should and to agree to not sterilise in order to give you options to rescue your lines should you need to... 

The challenge of moving homes/ areas over the COVID period sounds enormous.  I do hope you get to meet some doggy folk locally soon or, given this post was from a while ago now, maybe you already have...??

Unfortunately not met any show folk, but have met a lovely lady with a tescue of our bteeda week befote lockdown.

Unfortunately she has her house on the market hoping to mobe to Lincolnshire.

The bitch who I most would like a pup from missed and has one last attempt, as she is 5 in April.