Hi,

Can I please have some views on terms I have been offered. My partner is against the whole situation, but I'm torn. I've been asked to have a bitch on breeding terms. It's a breed I have experience with, but I haven't bred before. It's not a rare or a popular fashion breed. Bitch would live with us as a family, when health tests completed, bred for one litter, then become ours out right. The terms are, a pup each plus half the profit (if any left) We pay all day to day keeping up until the litter is born. Raise the pups as our own, then split the proceeds. My partner thinks it's a poor deal and can see us being left with hassle over the new breeders license among other things  and would rather buy the bitch out right. Unlikely, to have the opportunity to buy her without terms. Is it a poor arrangement or me? I don't have anything to compare it to.

I would ALWAYS opt for outright..no terms, no partnership....

I would always want to outright own a dog.

Who is rearing the litter and paying for stud fee, health tests, paying for everything the litter needs etc?

Also vet fees, c section, medication?
Who is vetting the owners? Who is responsible for the pups should they come back? You or the bitches breeder? The contracts are they eith you and new owners or the bitches breeder and owners?

What if there's only one live pup? Who takes it? And of course the litter would have to be registered under the bitch's breeder's name, not yours, so will she be responsible for homing the puppies?

Agree would always buy outright. The breeder can always buy a pup from your litter.

I know it's maybe 'flattering' to be offered this but the bottom line ...... why do all the work and have the original owner sweep in and walk off with the puppies they want!!   I have a friend who went into this with 2 bitches but frankly I couldn't see the point much as I suppose you might end up with a decent bitch which you may not have been able to afford, or be given the chance to buy outright.    For me, I'd far rather pay my way than be hooked up into this kind of deal.   Oh and part of my friend's deal was to have to use the dogs the original breeder wanted her to use.   Hum.  Seems like a win-win .... for the original breeder!   Your Partner is right.

Also who gets 1st pick? If you and the breeder want the same one?

Personally i think this is a recipe for disaster. I dont think i could do this myself.
Why dont they allow you to have the bitch and if you agree you will have a litter let them guide you to a suitable male but its all on your terms and if they want a pup they can have 2nd choice after you.
Breeding terms and joint ownership can work and its got to be detailed out in paperwork.

What happens if something happens and the bitch needs to be spayed before a litter? Then what.

I agree with the others, you own the bitch outright or not at all

Arh, that's all what my partner is saying and more.

The deal as put is, I do the rearing, the expenses and home check. The breeder registers the litter as his, under his Affix with his contract. Places two (if good enough) in show homes, then we half the proceeds minus the expenses.

Written down it doesn't look very enticing.

Thank you for your input, it has been very valuable.

opps, new to this forum. yet to find how to do everything.

personally for me there are too many what if. And especially around health and rehoming...what if you have unexpected vet fees for Dam or pup/s -what happens should you lose her. And not to knock you,  but have you any idea how much work is involved? I adore dogs, have had the "odd" litter here and there and finally after years of wanting to "breed" did so this year. I have been so lucky - I found an amazing breeder who supported me -constantly - still does. That said - I literally never slept for over three weeks- more like five (1 plus before hatching -three plus after) At nearly seven weeks it is still constant ( which I am fine with I bought into it) But after the birth mum struggled and I had to look after her AND the pups. We have an amazing quality litter … BUT one stunning pup had a significant overbite...the original buyer wanted only perfection, ( we have found him a better home than the 1st!) My point is the unknowns are UNKNOWN why do it for someone else! find the breeder who knows you are genuine and will hold your hand if you want to breed. OR save and buy as good a pup as you can. Husband is right !

no it doesn't he's got a cheek!

I've read all your posts again. You are all correct and I'll take your advice. Thank you for taking the time.

A friend has a bitch out on breeding terms, however they are not expecting the owners to do the breeding work for them to get a pup back. Their terms were the owners got the bitch for free, breeder pays for eye test and when ready bitch goes back to the breeders for one litter, that litter is the breeders. Then everything is signed over and the bitch is the owners fully and they can have their own litter.

Your breeders terms sounds like ur taking on all the work and risks and the breeder benefits without putting in the work themselves. Although I know of breeder who have such terms are yours with some of their owners.

If an owner had a top quality bitch of mine, but were not in a position to breed a litter themselves and I wanted a puppy for myself from her (say my line had come to an end or as is the case now I only have one breedable bitch and she may not produce what I want), then I would go with a Loan of bitch agreement.

Actually I had a litter like this back in 2000, but it was other way around as the owners wanted a pup but were not in a position to breed. The 'Loan of bitch agreement' was lodged with the Kennel club for a 12 month period to cover two seasons in case she missed.  With such an agreement any litters would be mine.

I had the bitch to stay once confirmed in whelp, it was a huge responsibility, the bitch came to me with a digestive upset and refusing to eat.  I had to hand feed her several times a day.  She went into secondary inertia after first pup, ending in a C section.  She had low calcium so had to supplement through rearing to prevent Eclampsia, while still hand feeding her 4 times a day as she was still not wanting to eat.

In the event they decided not to have a pup as the wife's health deteriorated.  I paid them the price of the puppy they were going to have for the loan of the bitch (much as you'd pay a stud fee for use of a dog), I absorbed all the costs, and sold the litter.

It was very stressful being responsible for someone else's bitch, as she could easily have died.

It was a worthwhile endeavour as one of the bitches was shown and bred from by her owners, though they never bred on into next generation.  A male pup was sold to someone who started to show him as an adult and he became a champion.  Sadly they never had him health tested, as they didn't want to have him used at stud.