Hi all, bit of help required please. Norman had what we thought was a urine infection which I found by chance just testing his wee at home as he was down in the dumps. Urine stix showed blood at the end of the scale and leucocytes. Who knows how long he's been like it!  Thought his depression/lethargy was because of a new drug he's on called cyclavance(atopica) which can cause lethargy as a side effect. On this for allergies maybe causing problems in his feet. Been on it 4 weeks.
Vet checked urine properly and found white blood cells, lots of, and red blood cells. Had a weeks worth of antibiotics and there is no difference in the urine. He did seem a bit perkier after a couple of days.
Vet now wants to ultrasound to check bladder for stones or tumour, also needs to check prostrate, and Normans sheath for any growth.
Norman not peeing anymore than usual or drinking anymore, in fact he wee's less than my other clumber and can hold on for ages. He doesn't seem to straining when he does go and doesn't appear in pain but who can tell.
He's not 4 until October so seems young for tumours or stones? Think kidneys ok as he is concentrating his urine ok.
Any ideas of what we could be missing?? vet thinks he's too young for a lot of things, but Norman has always proved to be different.

Prostatitis ? Not all the symptoms but has some

If I don't get a positive response to a/bs within say 48 - 72 hours, then I worry.   Some UTIs can be stubborn and it may need another a/b to clear.  I had a hound with bladder stones, and he wasn't exactly elderly - as I recall, and forgive me, memory fails (and it was years ago) he was around 2 going on 3.   

Scanning should show up stones, or with any luck, any other complication going on.   X-ray should definately be considered - as I discovered to my regret when one of our bitches had repeated UTIs.   Scanning showed nothing so in the end I took second opinions, one from my sister's vet and one from a phonecall to my super vet I'd left back up East.   Both said x-ray and my old vet said she'd probably have opened her up.    Eventually the senior vet came on the scene, x-rayed and found her chest full of tumours - the original (unconfirmed but probably in her bladder) had spread.   We had to let her go but she was in her 13th year.

He seemed perkier after 48/72 hours but the antibiotics have made no difference to the urinalysis. The urine wasn't sent for microbiology as needs to be taken direct from bladder which vet hasn't suggested, just ultrasound and prostrate check. He has been castrated so vet thought unlikely prostate problems.

Vet ringing again on Monday once we know for sure the cyclavance doesn't cause this.

I will ask for full blood tests of kidneys and liver as been on long term metacam. Mite even get check for Lymes disease.

Mamabas I lost a scottie to bladder cancer but she really showed signs of having it, lots of peeing with visible blood in it. A scan also showed it.

> He's not 4 until October so seems young for tumours or stones?

My (male) cocker developed struvite crystals (precursors to struvite stones) at 4 and a half, following a series of urine infections, and an episode 6 months earlier of blood during/after urination (and I feel he may have been forming crystals earlier), so yours sadly is not too young. Do you know the pH of his urine? Mine has to be kept below 7, and preferably at 6, to prevent the crystals recurring.

Non bacterial.uti ?

> Non bacterial.uti ?

Sorry, furriefriends, I don't understand your question, could you please expand?

Not  all urinary tract infections are caused by bacteria so wouldn't respond to abs.

APart from that did vet check for.type of bacteria if present as some needs to be targeted with specific abs as well as for longer than a few days .

Have you read this ?

It oesn't want to open properly .could be my phone of course

Won't let me edit, try this it works for ne

vet didnt send off as said needs to sterile urine collected direct from bladder. think the idea was just to give knit b's and see if it worked. he only finished them yesterday.

Ph in the morning is around 6 or 6.5 but the afternoon it gets more like 8 or 9 with very dilute urine. The morning his Specific Gravity is showing that its concentrated.

Speaking with him again on Monday so I think I will push for bloods and urine culture.

He's been on metacam for about 3 yrs but as SG does fluctuate and show he is concentrating his urine vet didnt seem convinced on this being a factor.

>Not all urinary tract infections are caused by bacteria so wouldn't respond to abs.
>
>  APart from that did vet check for.type of bacteria if present as some needs to be targeted with specific abs as well as for longer than a few days .

Furriefriends - yes, sample was sent for culture & identification of correct abs to use; Lab identified crystals as well as bacteria.

Having got.those results hope u can sort out the best way forward for him

Thank you.  This was October 2016, and still recurs if urine goes too close to neutral pH. (sorry for short reply, don't want to hijack this thread).

Hopefully your comments will  help the op to gain info to help normal too.

I would get his prostrate scanned while they check his bladder.
My boy had similar issues and was booked in for a scan on his bladder, I asked my vet if his prostrate could also be done at the same time, which was happy to do. The scan showed he had a cyst on his prostrate.

> Speaking with him again on Monday so I think I will push for bloods and urine culture.

I hope you manage to get to the bottom of the problem, I had to push for proper investigation but it was so worth it to identify the cause.

Best wishes for your boy, and you.

He's at the vets today, bladder scan, prostate check, sterile urine sample for microbiology and full blood tests.

Stopped his cyclavance,(last dose was Friday) which contains cyclosporine, which in a study showed 4% of dogs got a UTI! this is not mentioned on side effects of cyclavance. Specialist dermo vet wanted the cause of his urinary blood to be investigated before anymore cyclavance given.  Not sure how long it takes to get out of system but today he was still showing very high blood on the urine six before I took him for his tests.
The good thing is that he doesn't have any UTI symptoms and still showing lots of interest in food and his tennis ball!

Will let you know what happens.

Prostate & bladder all clear, urine sent off for microbiology.
Bloods the vet said were all normal but when I looked at them 3 things were slightly off normal, not major but I think heading for anaemia if the blood cells continue in his urine.
HGB 11.5 (12-18)
MCHC 28.8 (31-34)
MCH 19.8 (19.5-24.5)
monocytes 4.4(very slightly raised,2-4 is normal) so am guessing this maybe the UTI.

Hope it is UTI otherwise we're flummoxed as to why showing blood in urine.