How long do you wait before admitting defeat and neutering a dog you bought as a stud dog?I imported a beautiful dog from amazing lines,it was carefully planned and ive been in touch with his breeder for many years.my originally plan was to buy a puppy but a boy she had kept past to show for someone who had fallen ill became available,same lines,stunning boy with a beautiful nature only he was over a year old.Months have past and ive introduced him to girls in season( although until recently not used him) i just wanted him to get used to them but he has never been remotely interested.He is now just a couple months off of 2 years old and recently had to do AI with my girl because apart from the odd hump he really isnt interested,there has only ever been one girl he wanted and he wasnt allowed( different breed).My girl was scanned this week and no pups so im wondering how long do i wait before we call it a day,people keep saying some dogs can be late bloomers and id love to think this was true with him,he is absolutely stunning,so affectionate and doing fairly well in the ring,its just so fustrating.Has anyone had a dog finally show interest after almost giving up hope? x

What an interesting post, usually dogs are hell bent on mating and get told off for it which sometimes puts them off but not in your case, my only real suggestion is to see if you can get an experienced bitch who is known to be "tarty" and try her with another dog to see if she is fully standing. Introduce them on neutral territory and, if you can be sure they will be safe, then let him do his own thing, she will encourage him and that may just do the trick. I would have his sperm tested while you try to source a bitch and obviously if he is sub-fertile or not fertile that may be why he is not keen.  Do let us know what you do and if you have any success.

Thanks.We tried him with a girl from my girls breeder,an experienced flirty one and paid very little attention to her.She kept him for 2 days but took him back cos she said it was just a waste of time,she said it was like watching paint dry lol xx

Never ever had any intention of even thinking of using him at stud (no papers apart from anything else) but my 1st GSD aged about 2½/3 yrs spent over 1 hr in a training class next to a bitch who had been in season for over 2 weeks (owner thought that a season only lasted a week or two ) He never showed any interest at all yet 2 or 3 other males were gone to pieces for work. We only discovered about the bitch at the end of class when one of the males owners said 'he has only ever been like this when a bitch living opposite was in season!'
He was a normal male with all his bits but no interest at all.

Definitely get his sperm tested.   This may tell you exactly why he's not doing the job.  The fact his AI didn't take would suggest something isn't quite right, with him - when I had this done, out in Canada, with one of mine when having taken her to a stud 12 hours away, frustratingly he wasn't interested so we had to get his vet to 'assist', he checked his sperm before doing the AI and it was fine.  She had 5 pups to him/AI. Also it can be that living with bitches, a male will be reluctant, having been told off by them before they were in season - again if you tried him on an outside bitch, that doesn't apply.

Why the need to castrate if he's not viable tho?

I'm assuming you trust who you bought him from (had he sired a litter(s) before coming to you?).   Years ago I took my foundation bitch to a lovely dog bought up to Canada by his owner, from a breeder in the States, left her there for a few days.   She missed despite having had a couple of matings to him (I wasn't there!!).   I later heard he'd been missing to other bitches and was clearly sterile.   That breeder had been conned!

I took him to my girls breeder to try with one of her girls and he was the same there,very little interest so she just took him home after a couple days x

There are lots of different factors here...

Some males are just psychic about when a bitch is fertile and will show absolutely zero interest before or after that period - even when she is still in season.  It's like a switch gets flipped.  It could be that, despite being with all these girls, that he wasn't with them at the right time, or that they were separated too early...

Second, some males don't like to mate females they live with.  The saying goes 'familiarity breeds contempt' and often they just won't respond to them in the way they would a strange bitch. 

Third, it's worth learning more about his history - like has he ever been told off for getting humpy or interested in a female?  Often breeders shout 'OI' or 'knock it off' etc etc, when adolescent dogs get like this - not thinking about the impact this could have on a sensitive dog they want to use at stud later on.  Especially if he wasn't intended as a stud prospect when he lived with the breeder for a year, it could be that he was punished for sexual behaviours...

Finally, personally if he has such low sex drive, I really wouldn't want his genes in my lines.  So I wouldn't want to use an AI to see pregnancy happen - what's going to happen to the male dogs produced that way?  If you want naturally reproducing dogs, then only breed from naturally reproducing dogs....

In my breed it would be rare for a dog to be even used until around two years.

then of course many take a while to work out if the ladies will oblige, some are gung ho, and some wait for the right signals and right timing.

So if your are simply introducing him to in season bitches that are not ready for mating, then why expect him to mate?

Actually quite cruel/counter productive to present a ready bitch you don't want mated, as well as how to avoid a mating as they can be very quick if timing is right.

In my breed the boys get few opportunities to sire litters so are often older or have long periods of abstinence.

I have found the best option is for the bitch to be mated to stay with the male a couple of days before she is likely to be ready.  they can then get to know each other, the dog learns that no means no, until the bitch warms up to him, and he learns to be persuasive and gradually try his luck. As there is plenty of time from when the bitch is fertile to when she goes over (several days) he should gain in confidence and achieve a mating or a few.

Best results are with a bitch that has had a litter before and was eager to be mated.

I'd say a maiden dog on the bitches ground and only two days to try was not giving him the best chance.  Also the bitch may well not have been at optimum timing.

Also I have found that males often inherit mating behaviour, what kind of stud was his sire, keen, or one of those who would oblige only at peak times, only work at home etc.

His father is a show dog and has sired many litters.His breeder is lovely and definately wouldnt tell him off for mounting a bitch so thats not the reason.im wondering if he is simply a late bloomer,he does attempt to mount sometimes x

Have you had his testosterone levels tested ? There is a causal link between testosterone levels in sheep & a ram's libido(mating drive) perhaps this poor lad hasn't reached full sexual maturity. I know some rams inherit poor libido due to lower than normal testosterone levels.

Why are you thinking about castrating him so soon ? Have you been in touch with a veterinary repro specialist ?

No im not about to neuter him yrt,i just wanted to know how long i should leave it before considering it but certainly not yet,he is a special boy.Do you know how i would go about getting this test done? x

If he was a ram there are commercial tests, never had a stud dog so never looked into this.

A repro specialist might be able to help & also look at his dam's side as well as sire's. Any DNA for low libido or late sexual maturity could be carried on the X chromosome he has inherited from her that hasn't got a Y chromosome counterpart

I do this with the rams I buy in/ borrow

You could have a thyroid level check done as low thyroid can lead to low libido

Thanks will look in to this x

Have you considered getting his prostrate checked?

My lad who was entire, had his first proper contact with my girl whilst she was in season, I had anticipated it was going to be a problem, but it turned out the opposite. He took very little interest in her, he seemed ok in himself, untill he started losing blood from his widdle, the vet checked his prostrate which didn't seem enlarged on examination and was put  on treatment for a UTI, things go too well so he was booked for a scan, I asked if his prostrate could also be rechecked, the results showed he had a cyst on his prostrate, subsequently I was advised he should be castrated, which was carried out after his second scan.

My dog had a successful mating with a bitch, and when she was brought for litter 2, he was not interested in mating (although we tried several times as she was up for it). He has not mated in between, so I was worried. The breeder brought another one of her bitches, and there was a successful mating. It makes you wonder if the dogs pick up on if somethings not quite right with the bitch at that time.

It's more likely that the timing was wrong.  Many stud dogs will only mate a bitch at the exact right time.