Who do I contact to find out about right of access?

We have a gate from our back garden on to school playing fields. There are several houses with the same and another owner with a dog who also sometimes walks his dog on there.

When we purchased the house, the vendor stated that as long as we only used it out of school hours and always picked up after our dogs, there wasn't an issue of walking the dogs on there.

Three years after moving in, the school caretaker says otherwise.

I'd just like clarification before approaching the school for permission.

We only bought the house because of the secure field,have used it respectfully and never whilst the entrance gates are open.

I presume this right of access is something that was permitted by the school only and not an official right of way like a public footpath? If this access was only something that was agreed by the school at some point, then it can be withdrawn. I presume you have nothing in writing from the school giving you permission to access the field? I would write to the school head explaining everything making sure they know you only use it out of hours and always clear up afterwards and ask if they will change their minds and allow you to continue.

Yes, that's what I'm hoping to do but just want to check if there ever was right of access. The houses were there before the schools (one on each end of the field).

Its a haven because unless the schools are knocked down, the land can never be developed. The railway line cuts all along the back, the schools lock the gates during non school hours and it means that apart from the other dog owner,  we don't have to worry about any one being out there. My girls can go out for a play when nursing pups because they don't use pesticides etc.

It would be a shame to lose the privilege. Yes, we know it's a privilege which is why we use it respectfully :)

The caretaker said to expect a letter. I think I shall wait for it before writing a response and also writing to the other school. I just want a better understanding as to whether there ever was a right of passage historically.

Have you tried looking at an OS map as rights of way should be marked on them? If you go on Bing maps there's an OS option you can use, could be worth a look.

I'd suggest that the parents of the kids in this school have forced those in charge to stop people with dogs using the playing field.   I doubt there is any 'right of access' other than something verbal/informal that took place in the past.   Many people are maybe overly sensitive re dog fouling - and not everybody does pick up after their dogs.

Too bad for you, but unless there is something written about this, perhaps in your Deeds? I think you are on a hiding to nothing.  Shame.   Maybe you can talk to the school authorities re using the field out of term-time?

Incidentally unless there is a right of way across the field, basically the field is private land and what happened in the past, can be revoked.   And even with a right of way, it's more likely that anybody with a dog would have to have it on a lead at all times.   Further, never believe what somebody wanting to sell a property might tell you!!

We used to have a fabulous permissive path in the village around some farmland which had been in use for nearly 50 years. Then suddenly early last year the landowner stopped access anymore and although there is a PRoW on part of the land, the rest was always permissive. We don't really know why the permission was taken away, but suspect lots of dog poo wasn't picked up and the farmer got fed up with it. It's such a shame that we can no longer use the walks as it was high up and tended to remain drier then the rest of the valley walks and had wonderful views.

I can understand exactly how you feel, we still mourn not being able to walk there.

I think the only things you can do is to check if there is any legal rights of way by looking at a map, as mentioned Bing maps are useful, and write to the head pleading to let it continue.

I've tried to get on to bing maps. Com but it won't open :(

Apart from ourselves, there is only one other home owner with a dog. I suspect it has nothing to do with parents etc and more to do with council policy of no dogs on school premises.

Whether that extends to land owned but not within the school perimeters I'm not sure.... I just thought it might be worth finding out before writing a reply to this letter that's on the way...

Oh that's a shame. I've just tried it on my iPad and it's working ok. If you pm the postcode of the school I could look for you?

Or try 'maps the hug' there is the ability to switch to is mapping in it

Pm sent rozzieretriever

:)

Reply sent.

Yes, that's what I'm hoping to do but just want to check if there ever was right of access

The county council covering the land/area you mean might have maps of rights of way, herts does have one and believe me some of those 'track's are so unknown & obscured only small numbers of people know anything about them, try 'rights of way map' it for the county your talking about, these ancient rights of way go back many, many centuries but the legal right >in law< to use them is as powerful as any law passed in parliament today.

Firstly Notts county council show nothing as regards rights of way maps. You might be better off for info by exploring The Ramblers Ass'n site, the link below is to a probable place to start on their site, dont know why this post was started in Foo as we all walk places with our dogs including strange unkown places .

https://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/pathwatch-report-path-features-and-problems.aspx

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/technical-pages/searchresults.aspx?keywords=maps&CurrentPage=1
.

> Then suddenly early last year the landowner stopped access anymore

What a shame, that can't happen in Scotland where we have the Right to Roam (Land reform act) across most farmland, moorland, open space, inland waterway, beach etc but even the right to roam excludes school playing fields.

If there were rights to use the field with direct access from your garden this may have been included in the legal documents when you bought the house so worth checking the deeds of the property. In the area where I live there are a lot of 10foot ways behind the houses. These are all owned by a company and we pay a set amount per year to have the right to "move animals, pedestrians and vehicles along or over the land in order to access our own land". This means that we can drive our car along the backway to access our garage but we are responsible for the upkeep of the lane. When we moved in many moons ago all our neighbours used the lane to reach their garages. Over the years, as other houses have changed hands, people haven't bothered using the whole length of the lane and now it is only passable to the second house past mine - the rest of it is blocked by trees that have grown there and garden waste that others have put over their back fences. 

Our right to use the lane is written into our deeds but we have to pay the annual wayleave payment to continue to use the lane. A neighbour who forgot to pay the annual fee (£10) was told that, due to the lapse in continuity of payment, they could no longer renew the wayleave agreement but would have to enter in to a new one. The new agreement meant they had to buy the right of access and pay the legal fees for both their own solicitor and that of the company who own the lane.

Check your house deeds and see if there is any mention of access rights when you first bought your house. Most schools are owned by the local authority and dogs are normally not allowed on school grounds - I work in a school and the only dogs allowed on the school grounds are assistance dogs and registered PAT dogs, mainly for insurance purposes.

Facebook Replies:

Jules Magee Burton says:  Think it’s really selfish using children’s playing fields, weather you clean up or not, if kids are playing rugby, or even just if they slip why on earth should they get a mouth full of dog urine or worse.
You will have no rights over school property. The children’s rights come first.

Emma Judson says:  Check the deeds - did the solicitor raise any issues on access. How long have you used this access for - if you have used it for over a certain length of time then you may legally be permitted to keep using it, and it doesnt need to BE you who used it. If your previous occupier also used it, that would count.  If you can prove it has been in constant use for over a certain number of years, then the school almost certainly can't stop you. It may be that when the school was built the land was shared use with the houses that back on to it, so its really worth checking your deeds and the paperwork you got and speaking to the solicitor who did the conveyancing.

Thank you for all the suggestions. To update you, we haven't had a letter as yet (will be a week tomorrow) but an old sign has been 'un-ivy-ed' at the the end of the close,  stating that the grounds are private and trespassers will be dealt with. Its been there years but never visible - certainly ly not the last three years when we moved in.

In response to the Facebook user..... Yes how selfish we are for using a field that remains unused for 90% of the year and cleaning up after ourselves. I'm sure the schools go out daily and hose down the vast area to rid it of the fox, badger and frighteningly large seagull poo.  Not to mention the various mangled remains of pigeon carcass and feathers left out there by wildlife and feral cats.

.... Unless of course, they've asked to see proof that these animals are carrying their own poo bags and recycling feathered remains.

You should ask at your local library for an ordanance survey map of your area, all this private land talk 'might' be speculation, many of these 'right of way' tracks are very ancient and it's not really all that uncommon that over the centuries land owners with one running through their land simply pretend they have the right to stop anyone >they do not<, I know several crop fields with tracks running right through them & which are used occasionally by walkers or dog owners......

No point getting snappy because somebody suggested you are being selfish ( which sentiment I don't agree with by the way) but just because the field isn't used much it doesn't automatically mean you have the right to it. I have a huge garden which isn't used these days because I can't manage it, but it doesn't mean the bloke dOwn the road can come and cultivate it! I hope you can come to some agreement over this land, but the bottom line is that it belongs to somebody other than you so even if you have right of access you are unlikely to have rights of use

I understand that. But that doesn't answer my question.

Dog urine/poo is not the worst thing out on that field and no child would be falling in anything in the middle of the summer holidays.

I'm not suggesting we should be able to use it simply  because the schools don't. All I'm saying is that we aren't causing an issue by being on it when both gates are locked and the schools are closed for the holidays etc.

Whether we are granted access to use is up to the school. All I asked was how to find out if there was ever a right of access.

and if we can't use it, we'll move.

Move to Scotland, we have right to roam, although having said that we of course have to be aware and not damage crops, disturb livestock etc. Maybe the school would come up with some sort of rental scheme for when they are not using the field, with money going into school funds and you agreeing to carry a bottle of water to wash down wee when produced. Hope you can work something out

but it doesn't mean the bloke dOwn the road can come and cultivate it!

Which is what 'might' have happened hundreds of years ago to a 'right of way', some landowner/farmer might have just integrated a right of way into his land hundreds of years after the right of way was established >if< a right of way ever existed on said land/

There are two sides to the right to roam in Scotland. My mother worked her whole life (in the  nhs) to buy a place with a bit of land so that when she retired she could have somewhere suitable and safe to exercise her dogs.
Due to the right to roam ANYONE can bring their dogs on to our land. All dogs should be under control but they are NEVER on a lead.
Farcically this means we have to keep our dogs on a lead for their protection from morons.

.... and then there's the owner's 'liability' should somebody fall and break something whilst on your land!!  I know out in Canada land-owners were all too sensitive about allowing just anybody to roam free on their land, and not only for that reason!