I'd like to hear from people what 'end of life' care has cost for them, with their elderly dogs that have passed?

We have a 13yo dog (and a few younger) and just got back our insurance renewal.  It is going up substantially this year.  And the majority of what we pay, is for this oldest dog... It's an annual policy, with Direct Line.

We would not have surgery or any complicated procedure carried out on her at her age, so I guess I'm wondering about The Thing that will mean she has to be PTS, how much this might cost, and whether we should stop the insurance and cover it ourselves.

She is well in herself and no sign of anything at this stage, although she is pretty deaf, has poor sight and I can she's getting frail - she's still keeping up on walks although not running about.

What have people's experiences been with end of life medical care for a condition which has suddenly appeared and is going to mean the end?  How much has it cost you?

As a general rule, once the dog becomes elderly we go by quality of life which means when the down days start to outnumber the up days and with the view of the treating vets, then we call it.   Let them go with dignity.   I was talking with a previous neighbour the other day and she said she'd ut one of her old Whippets through chemo (which dogs do tolerate better than we do).   She said never again - it was more to do with the constant trips to the vet than any of the treatment and it didn't give him significantly more life either.

We have never done 'lingering'.   But each case is unique and up to the owner.    So there was no significant end of life care cost.

Thanks MamaBas, that's what we think too.  We wouldn't have traumatic surgery or experiences and once quality of life couldn't be improved with meds, then we would PTS. 

I guess it would only be:  To diagnose whatever it is, is going to require imaging or tests of some sort.  (Ultrasound?  Bloods?)  And then meds of some sort or other - pain meds or steroids or something to try to buy some more time.  I don't know what people's costs in terms of those things, have been...?  I know that some meds can be very expensive.

At the moment we're leaning towards cancelling the insurance for her, but just wanted to check.

I have had a varied experience with end of lives.  It's taught me that none of us can predict what's likely to spell the end, or what's likely to happen.

I've had end of life cost that has varied from nothing (heart attack) up to around £2k (fibrosarcoma that required an MRI to diagnose, at it presented (and even biopsied) as severe gingivitis).  Recently, my 11yr old had a 6-hour seizure that required an overnight admission on a saturday night, drugs and blood tests, which got to just shy of £400.  So far no recurrence, so hopefully no further cost for that, but she is costing me in ongoing for her other conditions - CBD oil and B12.  My other oldie has spondylosis and is starting to cost me more in painkillers as it progresses.  Currently she's on 4 tramadol a day, but I think needs something stronger.  She's 13 and still going strong, so her costs will be increasing for a while yet unless something sudden and new happens.

IME the ongoing stuff is not *too* bad depending on the dog (e.g. River only responds to the CBD oil, so did cost me a small fortune in various painkillers before that was tried), it's the sudden, unexpected things that can cost the money and don't always mean a quick final act - my lab developed IMHA at 10 and that involved 18 months of treatment and monitoring, only gentle as it was a mild case, before it relapsed and took her.

Saying that, the dog that had the heart attack could have cost an absolute fortune - she had DCM but was on a study into vetmedin in pre-symptomatic dogs, so didn't have anything else but most DCM dobermanns end up on a cocktail of stuff.  So how much end of life care might really varies with the individual dog and the condition being treated.  And of course, in some cases as mamabas says, it's better not to linger so that cost is small.

Hmm, thanks... 

She is a very different dog now at 13yo than at 10yo.  At 10yo we spent (insurance) about £5K on spinal surgery - which has completely fixed that issue.  But if it had happened now instead, with her already being deaf and blind and frail at 13yo, I would PTS and I wouldn't put her through the trauma of that surgery and MRI (it was 2 separate GAs - one for MRI and one for the surgery). 

I think if she needed an MRI now, we wouldn't have one - we would accept we didn't know what the problem was and we'd treat symptomatically and PTS if that wasn't possible.  13yo is good innings. 

She has some lumps but we've told the vet we wouldn't have surgery even if they turned out to be something that needed to come off, now.  So we're not getting those biopsied or FNA-ed...

It's all so difficult :(

When i was a teen my family got a 4yo rescue retrieverXpyranees. We had him PTS at 13.

He was arthritic though still mobile on level ground (not good on stairs etc.). I'm not exactly sure what the end of life issues were (having left to go to uni and not moved home again afterwards) but I think diabetes and/or kidney failure - his kidneys were very enlarged and visible/palpable on his back. He drank around 6litres of water a day and peed all the time although was continent.

At the time my own mother was terminally ill with cancer and I think the dog would have been PTS 6 months sooner but for that. Humans have no such way out and the two of them lived for one another. Our elderly cat had died during her illness amd she'd taken it very hard so i think to some degree my dad decided to let things continue as long as they weren't intolerable. The dog saw the vet but was not on long term medication or anything, i dont know what was said between my mother and the vet. Whatever it was he had was treated with watching only. Anyway my mother died one Friday in January 2005 and the dog was PTS the following Wednesday as he was pining terribly and took a real turn when she was gone. Also without the backdrop of her suffering we could see his more clearly. He was PTS in the office and cremated but ashes not returned (my dad's choice).

A horrible week for us but he could really run in his youth so hopefully he caught her up at the rainbow bridge.

So no actual treatment followed by PTS is also a possible scenario. He wasn't insured and mine are so that may have played a role in his treatment but he though he declined steadily he really did retain his sparkle for life until my mum died.

Sorry to hear about your mum poodlenoodle :(  Thanks for telling me about your experience, I will factor it all in...

just PTS and cremation (without having them back ) cost £200 around here.

My insurance doesn't cover those costs anyway.

> just PTS and cremation (without having them back ) cost £200 around here.

Just cremation is £216 for me for a large dog, PTS is around £50-100 depending on where it's done.

> just PTS and cremation (without having them back ) cost £200 around here.

And I bet there's VAT on top of that .... even if it's included that makes me so mad - paying the Government to PTS???   What do they expect us to do at such a time!!

> She has some lumps but we've told the vet we wouldn't have surgery even if they turned out to be something that needed to come off, now.  So we're not getting those biopsied or FNA-ed...

I'm not sure if its true but I've heard that with lumps and cancers one thing that often helps at old age is the old age itself. When dogs get old all the processes in the body slow down, including the growth of cancer. So that it may actually be counterproductive to do the surgery/treatment on the old dog, as its likely to put significant stress on its already weak body and the dog may well die sooner and be more miserable than if no treatment except symptomatic was undertaken.

Very true.  River does have one massive lump, and if she's still active and lively as she is now, that will be coming off because this year it reached the point of becoming bothersome (it's just behind her elbow).  It's an easy surgery though, the lump is highly mobile and she'd not get anything more invasive than that, now.

I think that as my dogs enter old age,  as long as they are happy in themselves then all is good. But if they start to deteriorate where they aren't happy then I would be slow to put them through any tests etc just to answer why and would rather let them go. I can't bear the thought of them going through anything stressful or suffering.
I wasn't of this opinion when I was younger but I guess it comes with a bit of age

PTS and cremation (I have the ashes back) is around £300 for me.

I always have individual cremation.

Is PTS and cremation cost determined by the size/weight of the dog?  (Like neutering costs?)  So the larger the dog, the more expensive?

Kate H, that's my thoughts entirely.  Although I do assess how elderly the dog is, since they all age at different rates, especially different sizes/breeds - and what quality of life and how much life they might have left, in a best case scenario.

PTS is whatever the veterinary surgery charges.  Cremation, if you don't want ashes back, is cheaper because they cremate in batches of dogs.

Individual cremation is more expensive and includes the cost of the urn.  I don't recall paying any different for my Bearded Collie than a Chihuahua.

Neither do I jeansw . I think all the prices are very similar but tbh I've never really thought about it and at that time couldn't .

I don't think u can ever know what cost would be . Without a crystal ball.you won't know if something that required regular meds may happen that makes perfect sense to treat even if the dog is elderly.one one of mine is no longer insured at nearly 11
I've never not had my animals insured but when his premium became £400 per month I couldn't continue. He a has number of health problems s which still coat me around £50 a month in a good month but an excellent quality of life if a little slower than he was . I would look at the annual premium and decided based on that or your individual financial circumstances

> Is PTS and cremation cost determined by the size/weight of the dog?

Yes

http://www.centralpetcremations.co.uk/prices/

I was insured with Direct Line and decided to stop the insurance due to the annual premium rising to almost £1700 plus an excess ( I think it was £80) plus I would also have to pay 30% of any vet bills on top of all that. My dog is 12 years old and a large breed. It was a risk but I put away the money I would have spent on his insurance as I felt the cost of insurance was too great.

Four years ago he had a mast cell tumour removed from over his hip so I knew there was a possiblity that he might end up with another one. I have decided, due to his age, that I won't put him through anything invasive and, for me, quality of life wins out over quantity every time. Since stopping his insurance he has had two visits to the vet - one was for a dog bite from another dog and the other was for x-rays to try to find out what was causing a very bad limp he developed on a front leg. The x-rays showed that there are changes to the bone in his elbow and he has had a course of painkillers and is currently sound and continues to be so for now. I had already decided that whatever the x-rays showed I would only give him palliative care. My vet bills for him for the last two years have been around £550 which is a huge saving on the amount I would have paid out by now for his insurance premiums.

Having put the money aside I have enough saved to cover anything that might arise - and bearing in mind that I won't be having any prolonged or invasive treatments for him. When I reach that point of having to make that final decision I know I have enough to cover any expenses and to ensure he is comfortable and pain free. I am a great believer in better a day too soon than a day too late and would not let him reach a point where his quality of life wasn't a good one.

Our elderly hound nearly 13, has had major problems all of his life. Insurance premiums are crippling, not been able to change insurers due to pre existing conditions & similar in amount to Harley.
I also made the decision some years ago that I'd never subject him to another operation or anything invasive. As has been said quality is everything but in his case he's supported by medication which can amount to £300 a month, so I've decided not to cancel, we might occasionally be living on beans, but he can be comfortable till he tells us he's had enough.

We stopped our girls Insurance at 10 as the cost was prohibitive . The excess was something like £85 +10%; like you we wouldn’t have had any major surgery so decided we would just pay for what she needed which was less than the premiums, never mind the excess

That's the same reason I stopped River and Paige's (also because the company is diabolical).  £99 + 35% excess.  It meant that it just wasn't worth having for what I was still having to pay out for meds with the premiums on top.

Yep sounds familiar Nikita :)

I went there once too :o