Hi,

New to site and getting orange roan in a week's time.  Puppy is 7 1/2 weeks old and just want to get some opinions on eyes.  Have read a little about Entropian? And just want to check all is normal.  Puppy's eyes can look slightly droopy is this normal, will they stay like this or change over time?

See Avatar pic as can't work out how to attach.

Sorry, sure I am worrying about nothing!

Thank you!

Hi, entropion is the curling inwards of the eyelid which allows the eyelashes to rub against the surface of the eye causing severe discomfort and irritation. The opposite is ectropion where the lid curls outwards exposing the inside of the lid also with discomfort. This is hugely different to simple loose eye rims. I can't tell much from your photo but try to be sure in your own mind that it's looseness whichmay improve or may not.

Your puppy contract with the breeder should state that you are advised to take the puppy to a vet within a specified time, usually a few days to a week" and if there any problems you would be able to return the puppy. If you are worried then tell the breeder and state that you are taking the puppy to the vet as soon as practical or perhaps she would allow you to use her vet and go with the puppy, it's probably nothing to worry about but best to check.

Thank you, pretty sure it is more about loose eye rims but would be helpful to know if this is typical with puppies and tightens up as puppy gets older?  Looking in google images lots of puppies have more closed eyes, but some do have big wide open eyes which I want to be sure we have.

I will request that this is all checked with vet check.

Thanks

Hi Jonski.

An indication of good eyes in a puppy would be to refer to the parents: Does the mother have good eyes? Have you seen the sire or a photo? Are you familar with the lines this puppy is bred from, and does he/she come from health tested lines? Also, do you trust the breeder? A reputable breeder wouldn't (hopefully, but we know it happens...) be breeding or selling puppies with poor eyes. If you're worried about this I would ask the breeder, and if you're unhappy with the response; if they're defensive or fob off your concerns, then I wouldn't buy. A good breeder wouldn't be selling puppies with visibly defective eyes, if indeed that is even the case here. It's hard to tell from the photo!

What breed? Some breeds have naturally loose eyes as puppies but they tighten up as the dog grows. Are the eyes weepy at all?

All I can say is if anything bothers you about this particular puppy, don't buy.   I'd also suggest that if there is looseness there right now, it won't 'improve'.   In fact it may get worse.   Having a breed with a degree of haw going on, I don't like to see too much, if any, in a young puppy.  And entropion is also a problem with my breed, due to excessive skin (breeders have actually been having their puppies eyes tacked to help prevent damage to the eyeball, until they grow into their skin!!! ) but again I'd not expect to see that in a puppy - we never had to resort to tacking with any of our litters and when I heard this was being done these days, I was horrified.   

If you do go ahead with this puppy, I'd take him on the basis that you need to have your vet give him a health check (normal within 48 hours of coming to a new home) and at that point, get your vet's opinion on these eyes.  And do look at the parents if you can!

avatar pic looks like a Cocker JG

Thanks everyone.  A quick update.  The skin around the eyes is actually tight (my mistake) and what we have now concluded is that the puppy has white pigmented haws, which is what gives the appearance of droopy eyes.  I will ensure that the vet confirms this and will try to get photos of puppy when wide awake (the puppy had just woken up when the avatar picture was taken).  The breeder has been fantastic and there is no pressure or defensiveness, which is reassuring.  It feels like this is just a question of aesthetics now as the white haws won't change colour I understand.

"breeders have actually been having their puppies eyes tacked".  That should of course, have read 'puppies EYE LIDS tacked!!   Still bad in my opinion.

lots of ophthalmologists won't operate before a year old for entropion and prefer to tack until that time.

> lots of ophthalmologists won't operate before a year old for entropion and prefer to tack until that time.

Yes, that's as maybe, BUT .... all this has been caused by too much exaggeration - in this case skin.   And it's done to protect the eyeball until the puppy has hopefully grown into his skin.   In all the years we've been breeding this breed, we have never had to resort to tacking the eyelids of our puppies.   That's just ghastly.

If it's a breed known for it and many puppies in a litter have to have this done then yes that a serious issue for the breed

I don't understand how these puppies can "Grow into their skin." If they have a problem with their eyes from the off, then as they age and become heavier, the skin will sag further and pull the eye lids down even more - gravity has its way with us all over time!  I don't get how it's supposed to improve with age.

If you look at any puppy the skin on their heads and muzzles is generally squashed up and wrinkled/looser than on an adult, the shape of the face is different.

Certainly with Spaniels it does seem that very mild temporary entropion improves with age and temporary tacking.

This should not be routine just the odd more wrinkly headed pup.

>I don't understand how these puppies can "Grow into their skin."

All puppies (at least those of every breed I've come across) have much looser skin over their whole body, including the head with the shorter baby muzzle, than adults of the same breed - it's as if their skin is several sizes too big for them - a bit like the school uniform that was bought large to last you several years! As the puppy grows it literally 'grows into its skin' and until it's the normal well-fitting adult skin.

I was thinking of basset hounds, some of whom often have too much skin full-stop, and never have a hope of growing into it. I guess in those cases, the extra skin only gets heavier and heavier, and over time pulls the eyes down more?