Hi - So my medium short nosed breed dog is due her second litter  - due date today. We only had 1 mating and although not to the day we know ovulation happened around this time as scan confirmed dates.

Its day 63 today and nothing seems to be happening which is completely different to last time!!

We have had no mucus, she is still eating for England and apart from sleeping all day and the odd quivery breathing there is diddly squat going on!
I'm sleeping downstairs with her, she is sleeping fine, pooing a little bit more often than usual but they are formed not loose.
Puppies still moving but her belly has dropped and her lady bits have got large again.

I'm thinking of taking her to the vets tomorrow day 64 if nothing has happened but wanted to see what you guys though??

Thanks xx

My approach has always been to allow 2 days from the first mating and if nothing is apparently happening, time for the vet to take a look.   Unless there's a need to see him before (nasty discharge for eg.).    With a small litter they can 'sit' growing bigger by the day and making a C.Section more likely to be needed.   Until I got used to it, with mine the puppies tended to 'go quiet' from 24 hours before whelping - I assume because they are getting in line ready to be born.   But going from loads of activity to none at all had me panicking with the first few litters.

No two pregnancies/litters are the same.

Thanks for the reply - I'm hoping things are starting.

Took her for a little walk to try get things
Moving and she had some mucus...temp is now 36.9 so maybe it'll be tonight.

Sometimes reading and studying can be a worry...scared myself to death about inertia!!

Don't worry, regular trips to the garden certainly seem to help move things along and most bitches whelp normally, I have found bitches vary a bit from one litter to another but generally they are calmer after they have experienced birth before, keep posting as I know some of us are night owls so there are usually people to talk to.

well im bored!! lol she is calm but panting deeply now if that makes sense. not quick and shallow. Ive tried to nap but given up, far too much adrenaline in me to sleep. Its going to be a long night!!

The waiting is the worst bit I think, much better when labour is underway and something is happening

Urgh it's all stopped. She's now fast asleep and I'm desperately trying to do the same! Starting to worry though.

So 7 hrs of first stage labour so far. No signs of contracting only panting/ heavy breathing. Bowels have been emptied a few times and she has wee'd a lot.
I'm sure no one else is up at this hour but I need to do something other than go out of my mind with worry!

Still here and still waiting.

Lots of panting, bit of digging. Gunna take her for a walk soon.

These are the times I wish I'd been blessed with patience.

It is a waiting game. My girl had a litter nearly 3 weeks ago but I have been lucky with her as in her litters she has moved on quickly. Another girl ( from a different line) used to go for up to 3 days on and off before a puppy finally appeared!

>My approach has always been to allow 2 days from the first mating and if nothing is apparently happening, time for the vet to take a look.

Dear MamaBas,

What would be your thinking if your female had been mated (by your trusty, experienced, proven, live-in male) on day 5 (!) of her cycle, and then several times thereafter, the last time being on day 15 (both of my males were REALLY gaga about her on day 15!).  I know my female ovulates early, but I doubt that she was able to conceive on day 5, the first mating (which she accepted just as willingly as the following matings), so I tend to throw that out as the day from which to reckon the birth.  I allowed my two males (the one who actually mated her and the other one, who, of course, didn't) to guide me, but now, I am naturally unsure about just where we are in the pregnancy in terms of counting the very last days.  I hadn't wanted to intervene and prevent my male from doing what he seemed to know best.  My little female is expecting 6 puppies.  We are all ready for them, everything in place, Herpes jabs done, just waiting for the take-off.

Anything yet?  Sorry I wasn't awake last night just for once, hopefully you will have puppies today, soon

@ Nimue
With caution because I don't want to get into an argument .... I'd not do matings over that period of time (10 days) simply because it makes working out the due date, factoring in conception may not take place on the first day of mating in any case) very difficult.  If you have one who will stand as early as day 5, and it was a good mating (ie she was standing for the male and he was willing to risk mating with her if he's an inhouse male) then I'd do another mating 48 hours on, if she was still standing.   And that would be it.   Again for me, I'd still count from the first mating and then if nothing happens, give it 2 days longer and then see the vet at least for his advice re whether the puppies are viable by then.

Hope this helps.

With bitches that are proven broods their willingness to stand is a poor indicator of correct timing.

Normally bitches will mate over about five -  seven days.  From two days before ovulation (the lh surge)  to 4 days post ovulation by which time ova are dying.

Many studs will only mate a bitch after ovulation,  the best days are two to 4 days after ovulation,  but younger males mat be happy to mate any bitch willing to stand.

In the case quoted a scan should be able to age the pregnancy with a 10 day difference,  as the appearance of 30 or 40 day fetuses would be noticeable.

One situation I would definitely scan.

Thanks to you both for the opinions and advice!

>With bitches that are proven broods their willingness to stand is a poor indicator of correct timing.

Actually, it wasn't the standing of the female which influenced me, but the behavior of the male.  I know that Lulu "stands" basically from day 1 to 21!  I just didn't think I should question the judgement of my male.  I have read so often that a male knows better than any progesterone test when the time is right.  But my males both confused me this time around, since they (and Lulu) were willing and ready to mate from day one until the end.  I DID intervene and stop everything after day 15.  So Lulu was mated over a period of 10 days every 48 hours.

Conversely, many males who live with the bitches they are wanted to mate with (is that English?) are reluctant because unless in standing heat, the bitches spend their time putting the males in their place.  

Hi

Unfortunately my gut feeling was right. My bitch is in having a c section after delivering 3 huge puppies on her own but being too exhausted to deliver anymore.

Will update when I know what's happening.

Did they try Oxytocin first,  secondary inertia can unfortunately  result in a section

> Did they try Oxytocin first,  secondary inertia can unfortunately  result in a section

No kidding.    Mind you with my girls, it was more moving to the second stages, ouch mum = shut down.   So inevitably Section.    I have always felt that rather than messing around if mine did shut down (which means give up) get in there and get the puppies out for the sake of mum and the puppies.   Yes she had to recover from the surgery and get on with nursing,  but one benefit was having a box full of nice clean puppies to come home with.

I hope you'll have mum and puppies home safe and sound.

Hope your girl goes through this with no other problems.  Fingers crossed for you.

She was on a glucose drip and they have oxytocin but she was too exhausted to push.
Unfortunately due to complications she was speyed. She is reluctant to feed pups and has no milk as yet.
On the plus side the pups are absolutely beautiful, big chunky puppies.

There often won't be milk as such until pups stimulate her to by suckling, it's called the let down reflex.

Take the opportunity while she is out of it to keep pups plugged in and watch her very carefully for at least 48 hours regarding her reactions to them and you may need to stimulate them to toilet and wipe them over if she doesn't at first.

I have had two bitches spayed during a C section and never had any problem re milk other than perhaps anaesthetic making pups sleepy so they needed to be woken and attached to a teat.

For the first three days they should be suckling almost constantly, this will then bring the true milk in about the third day, pretty similar as for ourselves.

My bitches don't always have milk right away.  The colostrum is the important thing as quickly as you can get those pups on her and suckling.

My bitches usually have milk through by day 3 at the latest.

I am amazed how my girl is doing...she is fantastic. Puppies are suckling almost constantly and they seem content...they are quiet in between feeds. Her teats are soft and i cant tell if they have milk so I have started weighing them to see if they are getting enough. I'll only supplement the ones that needs it.

I am hating the fireworks though...that is stressing her and it makes me cross!!!

She doesn't seem to have any discharge..i'm assuming that's because i've had her speyed. Also she hasn't had a bowel movement yet since the op. She is now eating and drinking. I'm feeding her every 2 hours during the day. I guess what goes in will come out eventually!?

One of my girls never showed she had milk, never had the classic milkbar of full looking boobs (you wouldn't know she was feeding pups), yet her litter of 7 thrived.

The only real way to tell if there s milk for the pups is to weigh them.